Using SW4024 as a charger only

cdabillycdabilly Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 11 ✭✭
I have another post going where I discuss my stored batteries.   Long story short I have a battery bank and an inverter that I am not ready to install yet but I do need to get a charge on the batteries.

The SW4024, which will be my inverter once installed, is the only charger I have.   So my goal is to hook that up temporarily to just use as a charger to charge my bank now, as well as do more regular charges between now and when I can do my actual install.

I have read up a lot on the installation of the 4024 and am comfortable doing that when the time comes, but I do have some questions about this temporary install to try and get it up and running just as a charger to charge my battery bank.

1.) A generator will be the A/C source to power the charger for this temporary set up.  Is it safe to wire the output of the generator directly to the input on the inverter?   For my final true install I planned on running it through a breaker, but is it okay to just wire it directly in?

2.) The install instructions specifically call for wiring the ground.   I can connect my incoming to the ground bar.  However normally I would connect that ground bar to my panels ground which is connected to the entire facility ground....but since I am not actually connecting A/C out and am not using this as an inverter, I am not really connected to a facility ground.   So do I need to connect the incoming ground wire to the inverter?  If so what should I ground the inverter to?   

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

Comments

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018 #2
    The generator should have a breaker for its output, this amperage needs to be programmed  into the CSW to prevent overloading the generator. The ground would normally be established at the panel along with neutral bonding, using a floating neutral without a ground wuldn't prevent the CSW from working but it must be understood there would be no protection that grounding and neutral bonding provide.
    Some generators are neutral bonded in the unit itself with a ground terminal provided if this is the case with your generator drive a temporary ground rod into the ground and connect to the terminal, this would be better than no ground at all. 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,422 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is this the old SW or the new CSW? There are differences in how one would answer this question BTW.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
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  • cdabillycdabilly Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 11 ✭✭
    It's a conext sw 4024

  • cdabillycdabilly Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 11 ✭✭
    I get off work in a few minutes and will check if the generator has a breaker, I can't remember to be honest if it does or not

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,422 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018 #6
    The gen breaker is nice to have but as long as your wiring from the gen (what size genset) to the input of the CSW is a # 10 or larger #8 you will be fine for now. You are smart to charge these batteries up until you are all installed. I would limit the charge rate to 50%. You just want to charge for a couple hours a week to keep them close to full. Measure SG if these are flooded. 

    Remember to use the right battery cables and over current protection. At the minimum disconnect everything after being there during the charge. Do not do this if you are going to town. Be there!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
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  • cdabillycdabilly Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 11 ✭✭
    So I had some family stuff pop up and had to leave town for awhile.  So as much as I hated to do it I had to put this on hold.

    Back at it now though.

    I ended up wiring the inverter up to the grid and it is happy with the grid power and batteries are all connected (physically I have everything disconnected currently via breakers and switch gear).

    So it is time to get charging.   Battery mfg specifially states:
    "If a boost charge is required; the recommended charge is 24 hours at a constant voltage equal to 2.40V per cell."

    As it is a 24 cell system my math puts that at a 24 hour charge of 57.6 volts.

    However I am unsure of how to force the Schneider to charge for 24 hours at this exact voltage.   When I put the inverter in charge mode it sees the batteries as fully charged.   Do I do this by doing a custom battery type?

    I emailed Schneider but did not get a response.  They have been good at responding in the past and I will probably reach out again but thought I would check with the pros here since I was hoping to get them charging over the weekend.
  • MrM1MrM1 Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018 #8
    use the charge block.  Set Bulk / Absorb / Float all to the same voltage.  whatever voltage you chose in the custom charge settings,  then using the charge block timer,  set it so it will only charge until you tell the SW to turn off the charger.  This is about the only way I have found to control charge times.  The Absorb timer on the SW is basically useless. 

    The difficulty for your 24hr window will be that the charge block is set to a 24hr clock.  But you could do some thing like start the charge at 9am setting "stop charge block" to 9am and then set "start charge block" at mid nite, or whatever (before you 9am start).  But that would mean that you would have to check things before 9 am and determine if the charge is where you want it ... or the SW will start charging again at 9am

    Or you could just skip the timer and do the timing yourself with your phone,  setting bulk / absorb / float to the same voltage and your phone alarm to go off when you want to manually stop it.

    The key is the Float voltage you chose.  The SW will charge at that float voltage until something stops it.  Either some internal timer,  or you manually .
    REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2.6kW-STC / 1.9kW-NMOT Array / MN Solar Classic 150 / 2017 Conext SW 4024 Inverter latest firmware / OB PSX-240 Autotransfomer for load balancing / Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S connected to Inverter with 7' of 4/0 cable / 24 volt system / Grid-Assist or Backup Solar Generator System Powering 3200Whs Daily / System went Online Oct 2017 / System, Pics and Discussion
  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MrM1 said:
    use the charge block.  Set Bulk / Absorb / Float all to the same voltage.  whatever voltage you chose in the custom charge settings,  then using the charge block timer,  set it so it will only charge until you tell the SW to turn off the charger.  This is about the only way I have found to control charge times.  The Absorb timer on the SW is basically useless. 

    The difficulty for your 24hr window will be that the charge block is set to a 24hr clock.  But you could do some thing like start the charge at 9am setting "stop charge block" to 9am and then set "start charge block" at mid nite, or whatever (before you 9am start).  But that would mean that you would have to check things before 9 am and determine if the charge is where you want it ... or the SW will start charging again at 9am

    Or you could just skip the timer and do the timing yourself with your phone,  setting bulk / absorb / float to the same voltage and your phone alarm to go off when you want to manually stop it.

    The key is the Float voltage you chose.  The SW will charge at that float voltage until something stops it.  Either some internal timer,  or you manually .
    Agree with setting bulk/absorb/float to the same voltage, setting block to midnight 0:00 both start and stop will mean always on, just run for 24 hours, timed with alarm on the phone idea.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • cdabillycdabilly Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 11 ✭✭
    Thanks for the feedback I appreciate it.

    I think I am going to give it a run this weekend.   Was initially going to do it during the week but while at work I can't check on it very frequently, and since it is my first time charging this bank I do want to check occasionally.

    Surprisingly Schneider just got back to me as well, even though I didn't ping them again as planned.  They were surprised that the battery manufacturer recommended such a high voltage for so many hours.  These are East Penn DEKA II AGM Batteries.  Do you guys think that is something to be concerned with?

    I took it right from their manual.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,240 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Does the battery manual state if the voltage is for Cycle Duty or Float Duty ?
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  • cdabillycdabilly Registered Users, Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 11 ✭✭
    Copied directly from the storage section of the manual:

    Cells that reach 2.10V per cell or less should be recharged regardless of scheduled interval. Record dates and conditions for all charges during storage.

    If a boost charge is required; the recommended charge is 24 hours at a constant voltage equal to 2.40V per cell.
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