Possibility of lower PV prices this fall...Bloomberg New Energy Finance predicts a 34% fall...

Photowhit

Here's a link to the article.

https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2018/06/05/bnef-expects-34-fall-in-pv-module-prices-in-2018/

Dave Angelini

I am seeing a nice improvement in product warranty in at least 4 brands now. It use to be only Sunpower and Panasonic had 25 year product warranties. There are now 4 brands of solar panels. The price is fairly stable now for quality solar panels.

Photowhit

Dave Angelini said:

I am seeing a nice improvement in product warranty in at least 4 brands now. It use to be only Sunpower and Panasonic had 25 year product warranties. There are now 4 brands of solar panels. 

Are you talking manufacturing warranty? I think Output warranty has been 25 years for most manufacturers, certainly Evergreen, Suntech, Kyrocera, Have had output warranties that go 25 years.

BB.

China has just reduced subsidies for their solar projects to make lower their costs of utility power... Chinese makers' stocks are dropping. Short term downwards price pressure. Longer term... Mfg. getting stressed and possibly failing?

http://joannenova.com.au/2018/06/china-solar-stocks-plummet-as-solar-subsidies-cut-to-make-electricity-cheaper/

-Bill

Dave Angelini

Photowhit said:

Dave Angelini said:

I am seeing a nice improvement in product warranty in at least 4 brands now. It use to be only Sunpower and Panasonic had 25 year product warranties. There are now 4 brands of solar panels. 

Are you talking manufacturing warranty? I think Output warranty has been 25 years for most manufacturers, certainly Evergreen, Suntech, Kyrocera, Have had output warranties that go 25 years.

It is called product warranty from (my suppliers) but I suppose manufacturing warranty is the concept. Product warranty is completely different than output warranty.

The problem for a buyer of solar is that if the panel stops working after the typical 10 or less year product warranty the manufacturer of the panel does not have to help in any way. Some will help but it is a battle.

I think you are right Bill about the failing chinese panels from companies that I can't pronounce. They do make some very good panels also but unless I know the parent company I stay away. When I worked for HP in the 80's we opened China for business. We had some amazing products out of there but we always had a few parts that could not be copied embedded. 

DanS26

Manufacturing defects maaaaaay get a warranty replacement, but has anyone ever seen a production warranty claim ever satisfied?

Dis-mounting a panel, then testing its production capacity against  its age, just never happens. The cost of all that testing, including shipping, is just too expensive.  

Those production warranty promises are not worth the paper they are written on.

Dave Angelini

Definitely not my experience. Warranties are worth quite a bit. I bet Bill the moderator would agree with me from his experience with BP on warranty. I also have had several clients get new panels. I want a really good warranty as that tells me I am not dealing with junk that I lose labor and reputation on. Testing an array that is intermittent is a PITA.

If one wants they can research how a Sunpower panel is made. Also Panasonic and LG with their 25 year product warranties. It can be a good learning experience.

cow_rancher

Dave do you have a link to Sunpower/Panasonic/LG production & testing facilities?

Estragon

A warranty is essentially an insurance policy, the cost of which is embedded in the price of the product. Done right, the cost to the company is limited, and the claims that do occur build confidence in a brand. Obviously though, the value of the insurance depends on the underwriter.

If I was a decent brand producing in a price war, warranty would certainly be an advantage I'd want to press. Making life difficult for claimants would negate my brand advantage, and force me to compete on price alone. Not a happy place in a price war.

BB.

BP replaced my 3.5kw array after 50% drop in output at 6 years.

And xantrex replaced one failed inverter and upgraded one (bad capacitors from mfg.) The bad one was outside the warrantee period.

Bill

littleharbor2

BB. said:

BP replaced my 3.5kw array after 50% drop in output at 6 years.

And xantrex replaced one failed inverter and upgraded one (bad capacitors from mfg.) The bad one was outside the warrantee period.

Bill

Strange, Both are major names in the industry and both had substantial issues with these two products. 
 BP ended getting out of PV module manufacture, entirely. 
 Xantrex had widespread issues with the GT series Grid Tie inverters. I believe the ECO-XXXX sticker at the bottom right was the indicator that the inverter had been fixed.

BB.

My 175 Watt panels failed at the junction box (connections to solar cells?). There was slight browning above the J-Box (looked like faint coffee stains under the top glass). Caused current output to fall in about 1/2 my panels. Entire array replaced.

The ECO was because (as I recall) Polyester capacitors in a couple of GT inverters failed and caught fire (the Polyester capacitors vented acetylene gas when failing). I guess they could read the lot code (same) on most of the failed capacitors, but there were a few (one or two?) that Xantrex could not read the lot codes on the failed parts--So they recalled and replaced all of the poly caps in all inverters.

-Bill

Dave Angelini

I doubt that [any Chinese company] would have paid me to take care of a customer who had issues. BP was amazing to me even though I still get the chills when I think of the movie Deepwater Horizon with the man Mark Wallberg. Great movie, not so great for BP....

No time for research Cowrancher but I will give you a link to one of my buds in Australia. Really funny guy.
In the middle they explain how the panel is made. For decades it has allowed them to give more than twice the product warranty others did.
They are still right down the street where we lived in the silicon valley. Although panels are made in mexico, philippines and china, I think.
I have seen info on LG and Panasonic using the same techniques. In summer, in places where it cooks, all of these exceed max power weekly.

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/sunpower-solar-panels/

Sometimes we had problems Bill with capacitor internals. When they were pulled out there was a service note to cut the leads as short as possible so no poor soul would ever use that capacitor again.

[editorial edit. -Bill B.]