Wind & Solar Charge Controler one battery bank

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Comments

  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Lumisol said:
    Ever have to autorotate a helicopter? No?

    Have to?  No.  Done it?  Yes - and it is a very freaky feeling.  (Of course, I'm primarily a fixed wing pilot, and just slowing down below 40kts on final is freaky for me.)
    The A/C is built with a very large margin of efficiency and it will not loose enough to even be worth mentioning.
    Quite possible.  The efficiency loss may be low; of course, in that case harvested energy will be low as well.
    Like putting a hand out the car widow at 55 mph will reduce efficiency of the car.
    An excellent example!  It will reduce the efficiency a tiny bit because your hand is small.  Now, if you mount a wind turbine on the top of an EV, and try to use that to charge the car's battery, you will ALWAYS lose more to drag than you gain in power.   Same principle.
  • Lumisol
    Lumisol Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017 #33
    Lumisol said:
    Ever have to autorotate a helicopter? No?

    Have to?  No.  Done it?  Yes - and it is a very freaky feeling.  (Of course, I'm primarily a fixed wing pilot, and just slowing down below 40kts on final is freaky for me.)
    I suppose you can prove your claims? Without proof, it never happened.
    Like putting a hand out the car widow at 55 mph will reduce efficiency of the car.
    An excellent example!  It will reduce the efficiency a tiny bit because your hand is small.  Now, if you mount a wind turbine on the top of an EV, and try to use that to charge the car's battery, you will ALWAYS lose more to drag than you gain in power.   Same principle.
    It's not even close, the A/C does not move down the road at 55 mph. If it does, jump!
  • Lumisol
    Lumisol Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    Hmmm... does this forum have an 'ignore' button for those we wish to ignore?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Oh come-on... We have a product that does not have any energy recovery claims other than a blinking LED on a small GT inverter.

    And you did ask about our experiences and you had two pilots (one w/ helicopter experience and one fixed wing) and at least one engineer (me) replying to your questions.

    Anybody has actual/claimed energy recovery for a "typical" installation of this device? Then we don't have to guess/estimate/scale from other data sources.

    Here is paper using HAWT and combination of computer+measurements from Department of Mechanical Engineering, Faculty of Engineering, University of Malaya:

    Design and Experimental Analysis of an Exhaust Air Energy Recovery ...

    For the actual size of a cooling tower with a 2.4 m outlet diameter
    and powered by a 7.5 kW fan motor, it was estimated that a system with two VAWTs
    (side-by-side) can generate 1 kW of power which is equivalent to 13% of energy recovery.
    A quick read through the paper is a bit confusing... There are no actual power "results" just Cp (efficiency?) that indicate 5% to 13% recovery...

    It is interesting that the exhaust fan had (on average) a small reduction in electrical consumption and an increase in air flow through the condenser--That is counter intuitive--A centrifugal fan generally decreases energy usage when the mass of air through the fan is reduced.

    Anyway, another source that ~10% exhaust fan energy recovery is possible... Not a lot more than that though.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Honestly I can't think why such a trivial subject has become a serious debate, I could add by asking why  competitive swimmers shave their bodies, because each hair adds to frictional loss? But why? Send an email to the producer of this product and ask for some hard data, my thinking is there is none, but they will gladly take your $599 or whatever it costs, not even interested in looking up the price, snake oil comes to mind....However I digress.     
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Lumisol
    Lumisol Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    mcgivor said:
    Honestly I can't think why such a trivial subject has become a serious debate, I could add by asking why  competitive swimmers shave their bodies, because each hair adds to frictional loss? But why? Send an email to the producer of this product and ask for some hard data, my thinking is there is none, but they will gladly take your $599 or whatever it costs, not even interested in looking up the price, snake oil comes to mind....However I digress.     
    Exactly, Why not let a person try something they saw on youtube if they want to and have the time, money and inclination to do so?
    I cannot imagine why anyone would want to talk a person out of something they want to try for fun.
  • Lumisol
    Lumisol Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    BB. said:
    Oh come-on... We have a product that does not have any energy recovery claims other than a blinking LED on a small GT inverter.

    And you did ask about our experiences and you had two pilots (one w/ helicopter experience and one fixed wing) and at least one engineer (me) replying to your questions.

    Anybody has actual/claimed energy recovery for a "typical" installation of this device? Then we don't have to guess/estimate/scale from other data sources.

    Here is paper using HAWT and combination of computer+measurements from Department of Mechanical Engineering, Faculty of Engineering, University of Malaya:

    Design and Experimental Analysis of an Exhaust Air Energy Recovery ...

    For the actual size of a cooling tower with a 2.4 m outlet diameter
    and powered by a 7.5 kW fan motor, it was estimated that a system with two VAWTs
    (side-by-side) can generate 1 kW of power which is equivalent to 13% of energy recovery.
    A quick read through the paper is a bit confusing... There are no actual power "results" just Cp (efficiency?) that indicate 5% to 13% recovery...

    It is interesting that the exhaust fan had (on average) a small reduction in electrical consumption and an increase in air flow through the condenser--That is counter intuitive--A centrifugal fan generally decreases energy usage when the mass of air through the fan is reduced.

    Anyway, another source that ~10% exhaust fan energy recovery is possible... Not a lot more than that though.

    -Bill
    Why would it matter if they recover 1/10 of a cent over a 50 year period, if they want to play around and learn in the process, let them.
    Saying it isn't worth it is not up to you or me, it's whether it's worth it to them that counts.
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Personally, I find the theoretical discussion interesting. If the person goes ahead and tries it, I'd also be interested in whatever empirical data they might be able to share, whether it works or not.

    I've actually considered creating a "failed" trial database because databases tend to be populated only by successful trials. I probably learn more from failures than successes.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lumisol said:
    Hmmm... does this forum have an 'ignore' button for those we wish to ignore?

    That would be nice. I know where I'd start.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • Lumisol
    Lumisol Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    Yep, same here.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Well, because this is a $599 product with no specifications that is being advertised as an energy saving device--Seen too many of those (and ones that violate the laws of thermodynamics) to be anything else other than wary of the product.

    I never said don't try it or don't experiment. I just asked how much energy it would recover and researched others who have done similar projects and reported their results--As well as estimating where the major losses could be.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Lumisol said:
    Why would it matter if they recover 1/10 of a cent over a 50 year period, if they want to play around and learn in the process, let them.
    Saying it isn't worth it is not up to you or me, it's whether it's worth it to them that counts.
    Sure, people have stranger hobbies.  Lots of people have fun trying to build "magnet motors" and the like.