Help.. New to solar energy. . Dont want to get the wrong stuff

TheNewGuy
TheNewGuy Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
So im totally new at solar energy. I have so many questions i dont know where to start asking them..( Trying to be as cost effecient as possible.) I get between 5-6 good sun hours daily.

1.) I have 218 watts of stuff to run in my camper, what size of solar panel do i need?
2.) I typically run these between 4-6 hours at night , what size of battery(s) would i need to run these without interruption?
3.) What size of inverter and regulator would be needed?
4.) Any other helpful information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks im so confused. . they only thing i know is i want a complete offgrid solar energy system.

Comments

  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    You did the first thing correctly. Asking before buying.
    Do these loads actually need 218 watts or is that name plate?

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • TheNewGuy
    TheNewGuy Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    218 watts is the total from adding all watts on my t.v, converter box, home theater system, and light bulbs..

    Im currently using a 2 cycle generator and just wanted to rid my self of continually pay for the upkeep of running it.. Due to the distance from my camper and the nearest town..

    I will research these options you presented to me .. thanks for quick response. . ill probably have more questions shortly.. Haha
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Are they 12 volt DC or 110V AC or a mix? At least the lights should be 12V and running off the battery of the camper... use a Kill-a-watt meter , ~ $20 on Amazon or Ebay that will give you a real reading of consump0tion in Watts.  hth
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • TheNewGuy
    TheNewGuy Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    I dont have a battery in my old 70's camper.. Its a 110 breaker i believe
  • TheNewGuy
    TheNewGuy Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Thank you for all of the information "OIL PAN 4" ... set up for just under $500 . 180 watts of solar panals with 20a mppt , 900 watt power inverter, 35AH Sealed Lead Acid AGM Battery (rechargeable), and the 25 feet of 2 AWG Power Inverter Cable . .
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Assume 18 watts of LED lighting will brighten up the interior of the camper, leaving a round 200w for your gear. Better to guess a bit high, then too low and black out in the middle of a movie, or while you are bidding on flea bay.

    Everything in solar/battery is sized for worst case,   This is going to cost you a lot more than 5 gal of fuel a week, but it will be much quieter.
    200W for 6 hours =  1,200 Watt hours consumed   ( watts * time = Wh)

    Factors to judge:
     Limited storage space in camper, Generator & battery charger $120 or truck alternator available for recharge when cloudy,  Poor PV panel placement (roof).   Few locations in CONUS (continental United States) get more than 4 hours good Solar sun in winter.

    Battery should seldom be discharged below 50% for longest life.
    2, 6V golf cart batteries should give you about 2280Wh storage,  barely 50%, but doable .
    They can be charged at rates up to 25A safely
    .
    1,200wh needs to have 1.2x replaced into batteries about 1500wh daily harvest
    / by 4 hr = 360w x 75% expected nameplate harvest = 450w of Well Aimed PV panels
    Flat on roof panels, expect only 50% of that, so I see 900W of PV installed   ($1K) + racking
    A 30A MPPT charge controller  ( midnight Kid $450 )
    No heavy/large loads, so a Morningstar SureSine 300w $220   inverter would be splendid.
    Quality gear expected to work right, could be several thousand $$ to avoid hearing the generator,
    vs $2000 for a quiet inverter generator






    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • TheNewGuy
    TheNewGuy Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited February 2017 #8
    Thanks mike.. Very informative.. 1 led is 4 watts and the other is 6 watts. Im going to take your post into consideration before purchasing.. I listed in a comment on a setup i put together for just under $500 , in your opionon would it be sufficient? ? I live in southern utah area..
    Ive taken into consideration the up front cost of this solar project.. I do feel it will pay for itself in short time..
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You are in a good spot for solar!


    If you have correctly assessed your loads, I'll work backwards. using 5 hours of run time at 225 watt hours that's 1125 watt hours total, I'd just use ac and not use 12 volt lights. personal opinion, but I lived the life and think it's better/easier than running heavy wiring, though in Utah you might have panels shading your camper, but I would hope you have the camper in the shade somewhere, and I'm adding 375watt hours for growing loads, not uncommon.

    1500 watt hours with a 12 volt system, you will need a small inverter, batteries a charge controller and some wiring and fuses. 1500 watt hours through an inverter will require about 1700 watt hours from the battery, the inverter will only be 85-90% efficient. 1700 watts will be @140 amps from the battery bank, I would figure 4 6 volt golf cart batteries for about a 430 amp hour bank, (about $80 each+ core charge from Sam's club or Costco's) A 600 watt Exeltech or a new 1000 watt Xantrex/Schneider inverter in the $250 range.

    Taking advantage of your sunny climate, I'd estimate an array of about 800 watts of array. At about a $1 a watt. This should provide about 800 x .75 (dating for hot panels) / 18 (vmp)=33 amps charging. I would use a pwm charge controller around $100...

    You my have over estimated your loads, appliances are rated for peak loads, so say a bread machine may be rated for 600 watts, but use less than 100 most of the time and 600 during backing while the element is on, a 4 hour cycle may only use 600 watt hours. Your home theater likely uses as much or more than the TV and could be replaced with some amplified speakers for pretty good sound on a tighter energy budget. I hope you have some fans included in your energy budget!

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • TheNewGuy
    TheNewGuy Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Thanks photwit .. This has been very helpfhelpful. Im beginning to understand there is such a vast array of equipment that can be purchased. . im glad i asked before spending.. Im going to spend sometime looking into the equipment you suggested i use..
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @TheNewGuy

    The 35ah battery in the kit would run your loads for about an hour.

    The 180w of panel could charge a bigger battery, say 100ah if good sun, but that still won't work for your 4-6hr estimated need.

    When looking at inverters it's usually better to get a pure sine wave type. Modified sine wave tend to be cheaper, but may or may not run your electronics properly or at all.

    @Photowhit - Are there decent 12v panels around for $1/watt?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • TheNewGuy
    TheNewGuy Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Estragon. Thanks for using language i can under stand.. What would be a good battery for my intended use and still be charged with the 180 watt panels?
    What would the run time be on the 100ah?
    Is the 900 watt inverter enough for this task?
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    If you have a Costco close by check out their 'tear drop' or chandelier  LED lights at 4w per/ 3 per pack running well under $20 per pack... good light dispersion and good colour.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another way to approach this would be to get lots of battery for your loads and use both generator and solar to charge. The way batteries charge is the take max current up to about 80% full, then acceptance tapers off to almost zero at full.

    You could, for example, run the generator for a couple of hours every second day in the morning, the let solar finish the charge. Using Photowhit's suggested bank and assuming some charge from solar every day, the batteries would be around 50% full on the second morning. Using the generator to get them to 80% would leave about 430*20%=86amp hours to full. If you get say 5 hours of really good sun and 75% of rated panel output you would need at least 86/5/.75*12v=275w minimum to get to full charge.

    I don't know about the 900w inverter without seeing specs. All 900w inverters are not created equal. In particular, is it pure or modified sine wave, what is the surge rating, and what are the tare/standby losses?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • TheNewGuy
    TheNewGuy Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    I know this feed is about my questions of solar offgrid energy. . However ive been reading info on wind turbine. .. Would anyone if this would be the better avenue for my needs? Its always windy here
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They are often used on sailboats in decent wind areas. Sailboats don't do 75 on interstates though so you would want to mount it in an easily demountable way (assuming your camper isn't parked permanently. Some folks are bothered by the noise. Also, the turbines like to see "clean" wind. Trees etc create turbulent flow so even though it seems windy the turbine doesn't produce as you might expect.

    Wind and solar are also often used together. Costs more but ...
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Photowhit

    Thanks. I need a couple for an over-winter floating system. Last time I looked they were nearly $2/watt!
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TheNewGuy said;
    http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=391674908906&varId=660771294727

    This is the equipment im looking into purchasing. . will this be enough for my offgrid needs?
    Be careful! This is a misleading eBay listing, only thing they are selling here is 2 90 watt panels FOR a system! These panels would not be recommended by me, they at 10 volt VMP and appear to be laminated to aluminum, these tend to diminish output quickly as the plastic covering fades.

    There are inexpensive inverters that are true sine for 12 volt systems, in fortunately there aren't really inexpensive alternatives for 24 volt systems, or I might suggest getting some of the inexpensive true 24 volt panels and going that route.

    If you wanted to I might suggest rolling the dice with a used ExelTech 1100 watt 24 volt inverter, though there aren't any currently on eBay. They tend to go for @$2-250. Exeltech has a good rep and had/has a repair policy of doing repairs and updating for $100 on these units.


    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Virtuousdesires
    Virtuousdesires Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    A trimetric meter is great to have as well. They're like a gas gauge for your battery bank! I'm still learning mine though, I think it needs tweaking in the settings. :)
    Morning star TS-60 PWM (With display, RTS), 2 DEKA G31 flooded batteries (210 AH), Aims 1200 watt Pure sine inverter, 2 100 watt panels, Bogart Engineering 2030 RV trimetric meter.