Alcatel Lucent 12AVR145ET Telecom 12 volt AGM batteries for off grid

bobertcom

Looks like 42 is the total number.  Unfortunately I cant get too much info on the batteries for their figure.  

So I'm guessing the 42 number is ok?  Right now it shows the batteries to be 11.7 c up there and overcast, so no good charging.  I did note that despite the lousy weather/sun, the MPPT went into absorb at 11:30 am... not a long charge on bulk.  is that right?

Vic

Hi bobert...,

In looking at this East Penn-Deka Technical Manual for their VRLA batteries  (it appears that the Alactel Lucent batteries,  from searches on the 12VR145ET batteries):
https://www.unavco.org/projects/project-support/polar/support/deka_battery_handbook_2007.pdf

There appears to be no specific Temp Comp value,  expressed in so many millivolts per cell per degree C,  but from several ways of looking at the AGM Charge Voltage verses Temperature Table on page 11,  the compensation value is between about
 -- 4.5 mV/cell/C  and -- 4.9 mV/cell/C.

Would still suggest that you try calling or e-mailing EP/Deka Tech Support for the temp comp value for those exact batteries that you have.   I have never run AGM batteries.

That is all that I have for you.   Good Luck,   Vic

bobertcom

Thanks you Vic!  U rock

new2PV

Vic according to the manual the temp comp. parameter is the system voltage, its nots not the VPC. volts

Vic

new2PV said:

Vic according to the manual the temp comp. parameter is the system voltage, its nots not the VPC. volts

Hi new2..,

Well,  am not quite sure what you are saying.

In  the Manual that I had linked to,  there is NO Temperature Compensation value noted,  in the useful and customary --XX mV/Cell/degree C that I could find.   The manual does have a table,  with a range of temperatures,  verses a fixed charge voltage for 12 V batteries.   NOT very useful.   I just tried to calculate that the compensation value per Cell per degree C,  from that step-wise table.

For the exact batteries in question,  do you have the value of compensation/Cell/C??

Thanks,   Vic

new2PV

I dont  have that info for his particular battery, but  the way schneider does the vpc setting they take the system voltage of the inverter, to calculate the number of cells.. In his case its 24 volts so you assume 12 cells so if his battery has a spec of 4mv/degree/cell, you input setting in the software would be 48mv.

Vic

Hi new2..,

Well all of us are quite familiar with the Industry-Standard pracitce of stating the Temp Comp value as mV/Cell?C.   Just who scales this comp factor to the number of cells, matters little,  as almost all of us think in and refer to this comp factor in mV/Cell/C.

 If Schneider chooses to do things differently,  this is good,  but,  to me it will always need to be in mV/Cell/C,  otherwise it will get in the way of communication,  as it did earlier in this Thread,  IMO.

It appears that Schneider is into making things easy on itself,  and its programmers,  by forcing customers to scale things,  and to lie to Schneider Hardware about battery bank size,  in order to scale EA,  and so on.  It is all about saving a few pennies per unit,  in lines of code that does not need to be written and ACTUALLY Debugged ...   but Schneider will always be Schneider ...

FWIW,   Vic

new2PV

I agree Vic, its really BS that they do it like this?  Should I complain to the Schneider tech dept? 

Vic

Hi new2PV,

Am certain that,  really,  Schneider really does NOT care at all.   They have their ways of doing things.   They are a huge German company,  and it seems that the customer needs to conform to them,  rather than the inverse of that.

They can make fairly good products,  but if one is waiting for some new FirmWare to fix bugs,  or crazy behavior,  the wait may well be a decade or more.   BUT,  for the off-grid systems here,  believe that the Conext XW Inverter/Chargers would be OK,  if we need to replace any of the Xantrex SW+es (sure hope that that need does not arise).

FWIW  Thanks,  Vic

new2PV

I heard somewhere that the SW inverters have a design life of 5 years where the XW's are 10 years, but time will tell on mine.  It is all made in China which I do not like.   The documentation is poor and some critcal parameters are not even mentioned in the manual at all, how they get away with it I don't know.

Vic

New2,

I would not touch the current conext SWs.  These old Xantrex SW+ 5548s,  here,   are about 12 years old,  and have a design life of about 20 years,  if not abused.  Very solid,  at 140 Lbs each,  but someday some unobtainable part will croak ...   probably should snag a couple of spares.

Yea,   agree that the Schneider SWs are not that great.   Opinions,   FWIW,   Vic

bobertcom

While I still have you guys,  does anyone have a suggestion for absorb times?  I know that's a big "suggestion"...but the MPPT's preset absorb of 180 mins does not seem to be enough...

Vic

Hi bobertcom,

I know nothing specifically about these AGMs,   but,   some/many AGMs can require a   L O N G  Absorb time,  but I know nothing about these batts,   especially in cyclic use.

Good Luck,   Vic

bobertcom

also, schneider tech suggested that I set the AH of the MPPT at 0.  That would disable the current control which allows absorb to be dependent on time only...is that advisable?

westbranch

If you follow their suggestion, you should observe the decreasing  charge Amps finally level off, and it should be close to ~ 1% of the batteries rating. Top do this you will need a good long day of sunshine  capable of charging your bank for > 6 hrs, otherwise you will never get that far unless you  do a bulk charge first with a gen or grid charge them let the sun take you towards zero Amps..

In the winter I use that setting as there is only 3 hrs max sun in the coldest days of the year...

have fun...

mike95490

be careful using end amps as an absorb completion with AGM,  if you have any loads, they will fool the controller and never drop out of absorb - eventually overcharging the AGM and venting them.

Dave Angelini

Mike,  this does not happen with the schneider charge controllers with AC loads. It can with DC loads. They are measuring DC amps to end absorb on the Mppt, SCP, or combox.
If the OP wants to test if end amps are set right, just wait for a day when you complete charge and force bulk. The controller should slowly settle to the end amp setting (within 10 minutes or so) and go to float.

bobertcom

Does this look right for the Bulk and Absorb set points?

I had them absorb for 5 hours yesterday, and they seemed to do better last night/this morning with a morning voltage of 25.2

Dave Angelini

What does your battery maker want? Always do that unless you know more than they do.
 25.2 in the morning before sun with small loads is good!

Who set up your devices???? Not a pro I hope? hint, they should not all be the same number. Good Luck!
"when in doubt read the manual"

westbranch

I see the battery compensation value has changed...??

bobertcom

I did change temp comp to see what it did to the voltages... but I this I will put it back to the devices calulation of -48

Believe it or not, those numbers are what the device recomended on AGM for my AH battery bank.  I switched to CUSTOM to change the Absorb time and temp comp..

Dave Angelini

The device "recommends"is an average for batteries.
The manual tells you to use a custom battery menu for your battery! I have not read all of this but you do have the manual right?

bobertcom

Are those Bulk/absorb voltages incorrect?  Any suggestions to change them too?  

Again, thanks for the help...I'm very much a noob

Dave Angelini

Others are helping you here, what did they say?  I bill for specific advice but I help alot of charity cases in the 3rd world so I am not heartless. Go back and read what has been written is my non specific advice!

bobertcom

i think of los angeles as 3rd world...

Dave Angelini

You are free to think what you want but LA has a GDP far exceeding the whole 3rd world. You can not beat the food or the people!
I love LA !

bobertcom

I'm glad someone still does!  Back in the 1980's and 1990's I would agree with you...not now.  

Most the "born and raised" people in LA I know, are trying to get out...too many people and taxed into oblivion.  Crime, homelessness,and poverty are rampant...  I live and work the front lines of these problems, so I can speak to it.

Thanks again!

Dave Angelini

I just go there for trade show now and then. I do love the great food. Sometimes when you are too close too a situation you are blinded by the negativity and miss the good parts. The traffic is never good there in that region.
 If it is that bad,  you should leave,  life is too short to not love what you are doing!

bobertcom

You are correct sir!