EastPenn (Deka) UltraBattery

I was browsing in Wikipedia the other day and came across information about new(ish) battery technology using FLA batteries with carbon acting as a super capacitor. Apparently these batteries can operate at less than full SOC without any damage, can be discharged to any level, and can be recharged at high rates. The technology was developed in Australia, and EastPenn has a licencing agreement to make these things. So far the most references for use are for grid stabilization, but there is some reference to solar power applications although those might be on the megawatt scale and for automotive (HEV) use.
Has anyone ever seen any pricing or availability on these batteries? From what I've read in various articles and white papers in including very favorable test results from Sandia National Laboratory these could be the batteries we need for off grid and grid tie applications. A company called Ecoult seems to be the only distributor.
http://www.ecoult.com/technology/ultrabattery/
http://www.ultrabattery.com/faq/
Brian
Has anyone ever seen any pricing or availability on these batteries? From what I've read in various articles and white papers in including very favorable test results from Sandia National Laboratory these could be the batteries we need for off grid and grid tie applications. A company called Ecoult seems to be the only distributor.
http://www.ecoult.com/technology/ultrabattery/
http://www.ultrabattery.com/faq/
Brian
Comments
Supercapacitors depend on accumulation of physical electrical charge on conductive plates which are in extremely close proximity. (Such as separated only by a non-conducting molecular layer as in a conventional electrolytic capacitor. If the separator involved is the thickness of the typical plate separator for an ABM battery the available capacitance will be too small to be useful. The typical supercapacitor also has a very large plate area involving very thin electrodes.
It may be that the ultracapacitor design in this battery is actually valid, but I have not seen anything that convinces me.
The ultracapacitor, if valid, will only act over the voltage range below the resting voltage corresponding to the voltage drop resulting from internal resistance other than interconnections inside the normal chemical cell part of the battery.
Advancements in lead-acid have more or less reached the end of their rope. Along with ultracapacitors, there is the recent introduction of either graphite or carbon, which does bring improvements like lower internal resistance, and PSOC operations as well.
One can get their hands on Trojan's "smart carbon" industrial line of Pb batts. Or go with Exide's graphite offerings. Both are very nice improvements worth looking into that the average Joe can get.
Also, any distributor that tosses out the sweeping generalization about being "safer than lithium", is a red flag for being driven solely by salesman fear-mongering (they don't even KNOW that there are different chemistries of lithium with different characteristics!) and not engineers.
The tech has been around for a few years, and all the major players are going for the HEV, micro-hybrid (ice vehicle with engine stop-start at lights etc), grid stabilization and the like.
Remember Axion? Looks like a direct competitor to Ecoults stuff, unless of course it is merely a case of rebadging!
http://www.axionpower.com/PbC_Battery_Overview
Interesting - they too are running scared against lithium with sweeping generalizations.
At the end of the day what matters is if you can get your hands on them, and if they actually fit your application, AND if you will benefit at all in a typical solar housebank designed for 3-5 days of autonomy.
If the Peukert factor is lower, that means the amphour capacity of the battery should be increased (at any discharge rate above self-discharge). I don't recall Trojan raising the C/20 capacities of their batteries when they added 'smart carbon'. Also, I notice the cycle life of Trojan's 'smart carbon' batteries is no better than their previous batteries.
What exactly does "better PSOC type of operation" mean? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I expect to replace my interstate batteries (made by US Battery) in 2016.... Is it worth paying extra for Trojans vs Interstate?
--vtMaps
I hope that I am a few years away from replacing my 16 FLA L-16's. And when I do, I really hope that something better will be available. Maybe the Ultrabattery or something like it will be on the market.
Sandia National Lab has published numerous encouraging test reports, here is one:
http://prod.sandia.gov/techlib/access-control.cgi/2011/118263.pdf
Anyone interested in this stuff could have a look here as well:
http://windandsunpower.com/Download/Lead Acid Battery Efficiency.pdf
Lithium, and commonly of the safest LiFePo4 variety, CAN operate PSOC out of the box, and in fact it is entirely best to do so all the time! One takes on a different engineering mindset when calculating their solar needs than you do with Pb, that is always looked at from a 100-XX% DOD. Not so with LFP, but that has been covered in other threads.
Prediction: Like LFP, these carbon-additive batteries will get talked to death, and immediately shut down from an upfront financial standpoint for most DIY'ers that do not look at long term, unproven tech that hasn't been run for a century or more, etc.
http://shop.solaris.co.th/solar-batteries.html/
Second system 1890W 3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.
5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
Amen..... Batteries can be made to last forever and take unlimited abuse... but the peasantry will NEVER get them for obvious reasons... this is the age of planned obselecence... the 'free unlimited energy future' projected in the 1950's is a pipe-dream (for the masses)... our REALITY is this stuff is engineered to break right on schedule and you must balance your system around this REALITY... if you are after 'new energy technology' develop it yourself for yourself AND KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! That's the only way to benefit from 'new technologies', IN PRIVATE...
Morningstar MPPT-60 controllers (2) in parallel
3 Trojan tr-1275's in parallel 450ah total
Samlex 2,000 watt 12-volt inverter hardwired
I have a bank of 8 of those exact batteries off grid in Mexico. I bought them NEW, out the door for $125.00 each. $1000.00 for the set of 8. I've been very happy with them so far.
2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.