Where do you get your LUGS from?

kaipo_boy
kaipo_boy Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
I have an Iota DLS 27-40 that I was planning on using to charge up the batteries if I had several days of cloudy weather.... until I tested and found my Ryobi 2200w inverter genny supplied just a tad too few watts and the circuit breaker kicked off after about 30 seconds on the Iota. So I picked up a Mean Well PB-1000-24 and it just came in. The only thing is, the Iota has a bare wire type hole with set screws to hold the output cables... the Meanwell has lug type output connections. So I cut off the tinned ends of the 2awg cables I had used with the Iota... I only have a Home Depot close by, but they only had ring lugs that were too small to fit over the 2awg cables. Argghh, this is so frustrating. Nothing is plug and play anymore. So I ordered a small slab of copper off evilbay...

IMG_9790_zpsmth04sbo.jpg

IMG_9792_zpsrbqgyfpi.jpg

Milled the ends to JUST fit into the Meanwell's conduit holders,
Then cut a step and drilled for the Meanwell's lugs:
IMG_9795_zps8qqehm23.jpg

IMG_9797_zpsltucdbe1.jpg

Last step is to drill for the cable and then drill another perpendicular hole and tap it for a retaining setscrew:
IMG_9798_zpstx5hohi2.jpg

The bolt was then cut off, ground flat, and a dremel was used with a cutoff bit to cut a slot for a screwdriver to make a setscrew that will hold the cable. Man, that was a lot of work... would much rather just buy a lug but couldn't find any locally (Honolulu).

Comments

  • Mountain Don
    Mountain Don Solar Expert Posts: 494 ✭✭✭
    Northern NM, 624 watts PV, The Kid CC, GC-2 batteries @ 24 VDC, Outback VFX3524M
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    BigR sells lugs in the welding department. I buy batches off of evilbay due to tinned copper availability and good prices for batches.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Mountain Don
    Mountain Don Solar Expert Posts: 494 ✭✭✭
    TChe good terminals have a chamfered entrance to the wire socket which makes it easier ti fit all the strands. There are special terminals for fine strand wire. I don't recall if the links I posted offer them. I do have a local welding shop that carries those though.
    Northern NM, 624 watts PV, The Kid CC, GC-2 batteries @ 24 VDC, Outback VFX3524M
  • kaipo_boy
    kaipo_boy Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
    TChe good terminals have a chamfered entrance to the wire socket which makes it easier ti fit all the strands. There are special terminals for fine strand wire. I don't recall if the links I posted offer them. I do have a local welding shop that carries those though.

    hahahaha, good catch, Don. I tried to fit my stranded wires in, and lost a few at the entrance... took the fittings back to the drill press and chamfered the openings :) They weren't done yet when the above pics were taken, though.
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't work for our host. But I did notice that their prices for pre-made inverter cables and interconnects were about the same as doing it yourself. I would think they have better tools than most of us. Just make sure that you account for the lack of a bend at the lug. I was short by 6" yesterday. Embarrassing. Had to bury the witness to maintain my rep.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Let us know how you like your Meanwell Charger.
  • H2SO4_guy
    H2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    @kaipo_boy....Nice job on the copper lug extensions! Would love to have a mill, but too many other things to buy.

    I have bought dozens from NAWS, but sometimes a good deal can be had on Flea-bay. Have gotten deals on hundred lots of 4/0 cable ends. Dealing with as many used batteries as I have am often making custom cabling. Got a deal on used 4/0 welding wire and it works great. Got a deal from a pawnshop on a crimper that will work with the 4/0 cable too, but it also has dies for smaller ends. There are deals out there on second-hand stuff if you look around. Made a solder pot from galvanized pipe to tin the ends of the copper lugs. I can clean them out from H2SO4 issues and retin them and they work like new. I use a propane torch to heat the solder pot up. Got 63/37 rosin core solder in 5 pound spools on the bay too. Just patience and keep looking.

    Good luck and let us know how it works out.
    12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
  • kaipo_boy
    kaipo_boy Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
    Let us know how you like your Meanwell Charger.

    Blackcherry, I've read your concerns with the Meanwell and they were my concerns too. But, after a couple of goes with the Meanwell, it's not as bad as I initially thought. It put out nearly 35A, compared with my DLS-27-40, which put out around 43A. So, I get 8 more amps with the Iota, but the real concern is that I cannot support the Iota with the genny I have. A Honda eu2000i would also have no chance of supporting the Iota. I do have 2 Ryobi gennys and they are inverters, so I can parallel them and support the Iota that way, but the hassle of dragging up the 2nd genny which is in storage, gassing it up, then hooking up the parallel kit, is a bit more than I wanted.... just wanted something quick without the drama. But now that I've actually engaged the Meanwell, I find there are other advantages... such as, I originally thought (same as you) that the Iota was far superior as it is not a smart charger so will ignore other loads (such as the inverter) and just do its job... the Meanwell does not like other loads, even the PV panel production coming from the Kid. Right now its cloudy and the production was only around 6A from the PV, so I open the breaker on the PV to kill production, turn off the inverter, then turn on the Meanwell.... seems like a lot; but actually, there is benefit. I then switch the loads that would normally run off the inverter into the Ryobi genny, and it handles the Meanwell (34A) PLUS the freezer PLUS the fridge.. so far. There appears to be just enough headroom in this genny to run the Meanwell at the same time as the freezer and fridge as its running at a fast idle, not maxing out yet. So its efficient use of the genny, far as I can see, when measured PV production is very light.

    My real concern is this: would it be better to combine the production? If the Iota puts out 43A and the Meanwell only 35A, yes, that is 8A difference; but I have to forgo the 6A PV production by turning it off with the Meanwell. If I run the Iota, wouldn't it just combine the 6A PV production with its 43A production to yield 49A? Is that what I'm truly missing? (aside from not having to switch loads and turn off inverter)
  • kaipo_boy
    kaipo_boy Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
    OK, I experimented a bit with the Meanwell, it will not combine loads, as previously confirmed by SteveK. If it is putting out 15A and I turn on the PV breaker so my PV puts out 6A, then the Meanwell output immediately drops to 9A so the combined amps into the battery bank is again 15A. I have not done such tests with the Iota but from all accounts it will continue at its own pace and just add the amps from the PV?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Remember, it does matter what the battery voltage and state of charge is... If the battery is at 50% SOC, you can put several charging sources together and as long as the battery voltage is under ~14.2 volts or so, each charging source should output near its rated output current (bulk charging).

    When the battery is >~80% State of charge, and the charging voltage is 14.5-14.8 volts or so, then the charging current will be reduce (absorb stage charging) to keep the battery at the absorb charging setting.

    And the charger with the highest voltage setting will carry most of the current--For example, if one charger is 14.5 volts and the other is 14.8 volts, the 14.8 volt charger will "win" and output the most current.

    Eventually, each charger will use its own logic on when the battery is full (current reduction/absorb timer/etc.) and fall back to around ~13.6 volts -- The charging sources will usually make their own independent decisions... And, again, the charging source with the highest voltage set point will carry most of the current.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If nobody else will say it, I will. The billet copper DIY lugs look awesome. But they don't have a UL listing. If you have a fire, and it's traced back to non-rated terminals, it's not going to be pretty. And for buying stuff off fleabay, without the UL stamp, it may look like a lug, and work like a lug for a month, but if the crimp loosens .....
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • kaipo_boy
    kaipo_boy Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
    BB. wrote: »
    Remember, it does matter what the battery voltage and state of charge is... If the battery is at 50% SOC, you can put several charging sources together and as long as the battery voltage is under ~14.2 volts or so, each charging source should output near its rated output current (bulk charging).

    When the battery is >~80% State of charge, and the charging voltage is 14.5-14.8 volts or so, then the charging current will be reduce (absorb stage charging) to keep the battery at the absorb charging setting.

    And the charger with the highest voltage setting will carry most of the current--For example, if one charger is 14.5 volts and the other is 14.8 volts, the 14.8 volt charger will "win" and output the most current.

    Eventually, each charger will use its own logic on when the battery is full (current reduction/absorb timer/etc.) and fall back to around ~13.6 volts -- The charging sources will usually make their own independent decisions... And, again, the charging source with the highest voltage set point will carry most of the current.

    -Bill

    Thanks Bill! for formulating that in a coherent fashion. I was thinking along those same lines but wasn't sure about how the different voltages interact with each other in their respective charging sources. The Meanwell also is a bit strange, I have seen it ramp up voltage in a 'bulk' stage, but so far I haven't really seen it hit a set ABSORB stage and hold a constant voltage... but I've been doing so many different things to the load and PV trying to get answers that I'm sure I'm at fault for driving the charge program on the Meanwell into schizophrenic convulsions. Tomorrow is supposed to be another cloudy day here, so it will give me a chance to run the Meanwell again and do some experiments with the PV production to see how it reacts with a SOC of near 70% (I usually end up near there after a long night... or maybe I'll toss on more load and drive it down near 50%? just to get some really interesting answers... for instance, maybe I can leave the PV hooked up at its anemic production in clouds and the Meanwell will hold its 35A)
  • kaipo_boy
    kaipo_boy Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
    H2SO4_guy wrote: »
    @kaipo_boy....Nice job on the copper lug extensions! Would love to have a mill, but too many other things to buy.

    I have bought dozens from NAWS, but sometimes a good deal can be had on Flea-bay. Have gotten deals on hundred lots of 4/0 cable ends. Dealing with as many used batteries as I have am often making custom cabling. Got a deal on used 4/0 welding wire and it works great. Got a deal from a pawnshop on a crimper that will work with the 4/0 cable too, but it also has dies for smaller ends. There are deals out there on second-hand stuff if you look around. Made a solder pot from galvanized pipe to tin the ends of the copper lugs. I can clean them out from H2SO4 issues and retin them and they work like new. I use a propane torch to heat the solder pot up. Got 63/37 rosin core solder in 5 pound spools on the bay too. Just patience and keep looking.

    Good luck and let us know how it works out.

    Thanks Hydrogen sulfide... don't we all. I dream of a Bridgeport but know I can never justify paying the money for one and in Hawaii we don't usually stumble across deals like you guys do on the mainland where some guy has one squirreled away in his barn or something. I bit the bullet a few years back and just picked up a cheapy little chinese mill (square column, grizzly sells the same machine under their label). Probably weighs around 400 lbs and does decent work on small stuff. I can't hog into a part like I could with a larger machine, but I'm not concerned as I only do small, personal stuff, no production, and can usually afford to take small cuts and take my time.
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    It's good to hear your happy with the Meanwell. I can see where it would fit some users, my Inverter has to many options that are adjustable for it to be of any benefit to me. Good Luck with it.

    I still have a new in the box PB-1000-12 ( 60 amp ) cost $349, sell $140, PM me.

  • kaipo_boy
    kaipo_boy Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
    It's good to hear your happy with the Meanwell. I can see where it would fit some users, my Inverter has to many options that are adjustable for it to be of any benefit to me. Good Luck with it.

    I still have a new in the box PB-1000-12 ( 60 amp ) cost $349, sell $140, PM me.

    :)
    I have a new in the box Iota DLS-27-40 (40amp) cost $350, sell $250....
    I'm not happy with the Meanwell. What I wanted was the Iota to be able to run on my genny without it tripping the circuit breaker. The Iota just does its thing, which is nice. Very predictable. The Meanwell, I haven't given it a fair shake yet, but so far it doesn't seem nearly as stable, I seem to be getting odd performance out of mine.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Yea... it seems as they add more "smarts" to the charge controllers, they become more unpredictable as how they operate if you have battery+loads connected.

    The Iota with close to zero smarts does just work--Just not very "generator" friendly with the non-power factor corrected AC front end.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Sandy
    Sandy Registered Users Posts: 5
    Kaipo - very nice! For lugs, FTZ has some VERY heavy duty ones, often found at marine shops. Online, they're at http://baymarinesupply.com/store/electrical/wiring/wire.html. My problem with ebay, besides that it's ebay, is that you have to get a pile of them, and I usually need a few of these, a few of those.
  • Imurphy
    Imurphy Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭✭
    Any electrical supply company should be able to help you out.

    Graybar
    Westco
    Cresent ect...

    They will have T&B, Panduit or burndy lugs.
  • zoneblue
    zoneblue Solar Expert Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    Ditto. All electrical suppliers have them. ie the places where sparkys shop.  They do tend to look at you a bit funny when you ask for like 2 lugs, but hey. About one or two bucks each.
    1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
    http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar