Learning how to install fireplaces?

softdown

Somewhat surprised to find a dearth (real shortage) of books or internet chat on installing fireplaces. I made a 8000 foot shop and camped out this winter. 40's are fine for sleeping. 30's find the cold air really wants to penetrate around the neck.

Thinking I need to install a couple used fireplaces that I found deals on. This "all types of solar and renewable energy." led me to this area for posting.

A lot of solar users are off grid and use a fireplace extensively. I like to do my own installations for several reasons. With enough time, I can often find a deal on materials. Plus nobody is rushing me into snap decisions.

Where to go for fireplace installation savvy? I joined Wood-Stove.org by the way. Things will be a bit slow this time of year.

In the mood for a book about fireplaces. Found zip.

zoneblue

Plumbers and gasfitters dont tend to share much on the internet. It is also a highly regulated industry. Most jurisdictions have particular building code restrictions on the installation of wood stoves, either new or used. Therefore if you want to DIY, you owe it to yourself to get a copy of your local codes, figure out the required clearances from combustible surfaces etc and at least install to code, even if you dont use a licensed tradesman. There actually inst a heck of lot to it, so long as its fire safe, well sealed, (both air and water), and the chimney is long enough, (usually 4.2m or 1.2m clear of the peak roofline which ever is the higher.)

Photowhit

I don't think it's as highly regulated in the US, though in metropolitan areas, I'm sure you will have codes and inspections. I read up on line and instructions on clearances in the installation manual, Purchased my stove about this time of year and they stored it for my until I picked it up in October? Tractor Supply, US stove, It works pretty well. I think there are some threads here about wood stoves.

I posted some photos of my installation in the Show-me -your's thread, Couldn't get the search engine to find my post so here's a link to the page I'm half way down with the ugly window treatment. The double back on the stove allowed for a very minimal clearance from the back wall, only 8" but I used a bit more. If you're handy it's not a huge chore, I'm somewhat handy and it was do able, biggest pain was cutting the sheet metal to run the pipe through.

softdown

My county is very remote. Didn't even require permits until this century. I get a kick out of posters in countries that require multiple examinations for making a doghouse.

I want them to be safe and efficient and cost effective....installation wise.

zoneblue

Yes its gettign more and more ridicolus by the day here. Now you cant even hire a guy to do a minor alteration unless the builder is a registered builder. That started about 5 years ago.

For the woodstove i think the hardest part is the roof penetration. A matter of finding the correct flashing and fitting it as PW said according to the manufacturers specs. For those type of things it pays to follow the instructions. I remember one time years ago when clear corrugated roofing came out, the instructions said drill a 10mm hole for the roof screws. I thought to myself 10mm, what! im trying to keep the water out, and drilled a smaller hole. Turned out the plastic expands and contracts and the large hole is to allow for that. Without it the material cracks.

You need the flue length to develop enough draft. Flues should always be round, have minimum bends and bigger is always better, ie 6inch. Rivet the flue sections to prevent them pulling apart during maintenance. Pay attention the hat detail, it needs to enhance draw, but be wind and rain proof, and bird proof. YOu can get a tube of fire cement to seat the bottom of the flue int the stove. Thats a spot that will compromise the draft if not reasonable air tight.

Mountain Don

zoneblue wrote: »

Flues should always be round, have minimum bends and bigger is always better,

I agree with the fewer bends the better, and they should be be 45 degree or less. However, a bigger is not always better. Bigger than what the stove / fireplace was designed for can result it poor performance. There is a significant reduction is flue gas speed when the chimney is even 2 inches too big. Use the size the manufacturer designed for. As far as installing, every wood stove and fireplace I've looked at had detailed instructions for clearances, flue installation, etc. Follow therm. Many stoves will also list maximum lengths of un-insulated chimney pipe; again it is to prevent poor performance. Fireplaces, OTOH usually use all insulated pipe when they are a new zero clearance install.

http://​Hearth.com has reliable info

Photowhit

Wow, zero clearance? I think my SS insulated pipe still has a 1" clearance from flammables. I have 2 - 90 degree bends (installed to manufacture specs! I think less than 3') and my stove draws fine. You might check out Tractor supply to see if they have any year end left overs, I think my US 2000(?) sold for $600 there and it was already cheaper by $100+ than anywhere else and then I picked it up for $300 or $350 and they stored it for me until I installed it @6 months later.

I like the stove, It has a wide shallow fire box (22 inch logs, but maybe 12 inches deep, perhaps less!) and I would prefer a deep narrow box, which nobody makes. I normally build a fee a fire before work and rake out the coals and feed it when I get home and again before bed. Once established it will have coals after 12 hours.so long as you damper it down before leaving. If you smolder a fire this way you should clean your chimney every year, The double bend makes this easier. I haven't had too much build up, though I haven't cleaned it this year, yet.

Mountain Don

A zero-clearance fireplace (“zero-clearance” means that it has its own insulation, and needs zero inches of clearance — or distance — from combustible materials in the home) is a self-contained, prefabricated firebox which is designed to be installed almost anywhere. see info here This is a fireplace, not a wood burning stove.

another reference.

softdown

I buy old, lightly used wood burning stoves. No instructions included.

Mountain Don

If it is a wood burning stove there will be a label affixed to it someplace that lists the clearances, IF it is a newer EPA approved stove. If there is no label then the safe assumption is that the stove requires large clearances, side, top, rear, from combustibles. See this article for some info. Another.


(When I see the word fireplace I do not think of wood burning stoves; 2 very different animals.)


FWIW, in some locations it is illegal to install a non certified, non EPA approved, wood burning stove.

Photowhit

softdown wrote: »

I buy old, lightly used wood burning stoves. No instructions included.

There have been some advancement in the design of stoves, around here, air tight stoves in good shape (lightly used...) don't get much cheaper, and for $350 I got a stove rated to heat 2000 sqft and clearences of I believe 8" from the back. I like that I have the information to install the stove properly. FWIW - I think the stove pipe and additional items cost as much as the stove, and maybe more.

westbranch

''Hardy'' cement board is your stoves best friend.....

softdown

Anybody found a good source for stove pipe? Galvanized pipe used to be used and I can find it at low enough prices. Black stove pipe is a bit thicker and looks better I think.

Mountain Don

I use a local stove dealer for black pipe and the class A insulated pipe that goes through the ceiling and roof. Online prices can be less but shipping adds up.

Do NOT use galvanized for any use in a chimney connection. If it gets hot enough the zinc can release fumes and that are very unhealthy to breathe.. I don't know how likely it is that you will get the chimney that hot but that was the reason given me for wood stove chimney pipe being black and not galvanized. I have seen pipe get red hot (dull red glow in dark room) and that may be hot enough.

zoneblue

Photowhit wrote: »

It has a wide shallow fire box (22 inch logs, but maybe 12 inches deep, perhaps less!) and I would prefer a deep narrow box, which nobody makes.

Agreed. We once had a 70's era stove that was narrow and deep. Granted they are harder to fit into houses, spacewise, but they really work with the double burn airflow. The one we had would burn all night happliy, and after 4 years the chimney had virtually nothing in it.

Whereas the new fangled reputable brand low emiisions one we have now, is wide and not deep, difficult to load, easy to get ash everywhere, and outright refuses to burn through the nite. AND i have to clean the flue every year. It also has 3 ceramic insulatng peices that have to replaced every few years at about 120 bucks a pop.

Progress, huh.

Photowhit

I don't think they are much harder to fit, you could just put them sideways in the same position as the wide ones, of course they would have to have a ceramic back wall or be designed with a double side.

I use to have a tiny long box heater in a camper, and I totally agree about there being less ash, much easier to keep clean.

I think it's a democratic thing, people like the glass front. Never underestimate peoples ability to be entertained by bright lights and flame.

My new stove does burn through the night, but I tend to smolder it, I also try to have a very hot fire in it a couple time a week to help clean up the stove but this doesn't help cleaning up the chimney.