Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

Les Nagy
Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
It has come up occasionally that people would like to know what test equipment is OK or acceptable for testing, specifically multimeters. Well perhaps I can help those looking for a good multimeter with some advice and some examples of what I consider worthy of your money.

The first thing to consider in a multimeter is what you want to do with it.

If all you want to do is measure batteries, then there are many multimeters that can fit this use and for a low price. You still need to consider build quality and accuracy over time. Some are built so badly as to be likely to fail at anytime or give you false readings. In this light, if you buy a cheap multimeter then you better buy two so you can cross check readings.

If you care about quality and safety, especially if you are going to use a multimeter on the output of your inverter, house wiring, grid feeds, etc, then you need something much better than that $5 Harbor Freight piece of junk. Cheap meters can fail in a way as to be dangerous and are not built to take the possible spikes that might come down the line from faults or lightning. You will hear many people saying things like "I use my $2 ebay meter all the time on the feed from the grid and have never had a problem". So? Safety standards were put in place because problems did happen and people have been injured or killed. Safety standards for multimeters exist for a reason. People also make mistakes and the safety standards are there to protect you. If you care about your safety then look for CAT ratings and third party certification lab approvals. A CE mark means nothing anymore. Look for TUV, UL, GS, and standards such as these stamped on the case or a sticker with the certification number. A manufacturer with these standards will have some proof that they have met these standards.

So what would I recommend? I have over 40 years in electronics and electrical work. Based on my experience I have some recommendations.

First let me recommend an ebay seller that I trust and many others, from an electronics forums I belong to, trust also.
http://stores.ebay.com/99centhobbies
He sells a number of multimeter that range from inexpensive but good, to what some people might consider expensive but every bit as good as Fluke or Agilent.

The first one I would recommend in the low price is this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digitek-DT-2843R-AC-DC-True-RMS-Multimeter-with-Backlight-and-Temperature-/171080136251
It is not correctly built to match its claimed safety ratings, but overall it is a good meter and can be used confidently to measure electronics, batteries, and even the output of your solar system. I would not use this over 250V nor on the grid as the input protection is not adequate to protect the user should a spike or a fault cause an overload. It has a slow continuity tester, but has every other function that anyone would probably need. (I have one and it is useful as an everyday meter for the work bench)

He also sells a number of my favorite brand of multimeter, Brymen. These are not well known, but they are OEMs for companies like Amprobe, Extech, Greenlee and others. He normally has a Brymen BM257 in stock that sells for $135 shipped to your door. It is probably the solar installer's best friend. It is built very safely, has all the functions you could want for solar installations, plus has a non-contact electrical field detector and temperature measurement. It is built like a tank and would probably be the last meter you need. It is also TRMS but does not account for a DC offset and this is probably its biggest fault. (I have one and love it)

Another super meter, built as good as you can get is the BM829:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM829-Digital-Multimeter-Dual-Display-AC-DC-TRMS-Dual-Temp-10-000-Count-/201070664254
It makes up for all the missing capabilities of the BM257, has dual display, and is all the multimeter anyone would need. Except if....

If you want data logging in the field it is hard to beat the BM521 or BM525:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM829-Digital-Multimeter-Dual-Display-AC-DC-TRMS-Dual-Temp-10-000-Count-/201070664254
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM525-Digital-Multimeter-Internal-Logging-Dual-Display-Temp-AC-DC-TRMS-/171151111418
I have the BM525 and it is extremely useful for logging the performance of a system in the field. It removes the non-contact tester but the logging really can be useful. To get the best use you need to buy the computer cable which is expensive, something like $50, but he does not have stock right now.

These are just my suggestions from this seller.

The above can be purchased at similar prices from www.tme.eu but their customer service is really lacking if something goes wrong with your shipment. There are also Greenlee re-brands of the same Brymen meters but they tend to be much more expensive. They do offer a lifetime warranty instead of the Brymen one year, but they are the same meters.

Other brands to consider?

Unitrend:
UT61E, high accuracy, lower safety, slow continuity test, no back light, $55, includes data cable for computer,good value
UT71X series, same as above but better reliability, higher accuracy. $110 to $180. Avoid UT71E as they seem to not be as reliable. The UT71D is a great logging meter too.
UT139C, $55 or so, good safety, many useful functions, probably best buy from Uni-T for a general use meter

Mastech? IMHO, no. They seem to be made to a price and not very reliable.

Agilent:
Most of their models are properly designed for safety but there have been some problems in the past with build quality and software problems. Not a bad choice but be aware of these possible problems. Generally not the biggest bang for the buck but better than Fluke for featues.

Amprobe:
AM270, around $120, made by Brymen, really good meter and safe, back light is a joke.
AM 510 to AM 570, prices from $30 to $105, good buys and appear to be safely built, buy the one that meets your needs.

BK Precision:
They make many many different models. They all seem to be well built and good value for the money. There are too many variations to make a specific recommendation so ask if you want my opinion on a certain model.

Brymen:
You almost can't go wrong with a Brymen. There are many different models to meet many needs, so ask if you want to know my opinion on your specific price range and use.

Extech:
In my experience and the experience of others, the EX series have build quality problems and I would stay away from them. The MM series are built by Brymen and you can't go wrong except the prices are higher than the equivalent model from Brymen.

Fluke:
The manufacturer everyone compares to. You cannot go wrong buying a Fluke, EXCEPT!.... They are not the best buy for the money IMHO. Brymen, for example, has at least as good build quality and more features for usually less money. Fluke has a lifetime warranty vs Brymen. Fluke has some specific models that are not matched by other manufacturers but they are also very expensive. You also almost can't go wrong if you find a good used Fluke. They all seem to hold their calibration for a long time.

A good "budget" Fluke option is the Fluke 17B. It can be found for around $110 from different vendors and on ebay. It is only guaranteed for one year but it is built very well. This is if you insist on a Fluke but don't want to spend $400.

Hioki:
Great meters, not high value for the dollar.

Greenlee:
Many of their multimeters are re-branded Brymens with a different color holster and with longer warranty. They are usually sold at much higher prices than Brymen but you can find the occasional good buy on ebay and other places from trusted sellers. One example at the time of this post is the BM829 equivalent:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Greenlee-DM-830A-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-1000-Volt-/171479881115?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ecff559b

Yokogawa:
Apparently built very well and highly regarded by many but very expensive. There are much better buys in other brands.


I have provided my opinion based on experience, information from other trusted people, and from actually owning many different brands and models. If someone wants to know about a specific model I will try to answer. I have not provided information on other brands, mainly because I don't have strong opinions one way or the other, I completely disregard them as junk or as unsafe, are not even worth considering because the the low value they represent, or I have zero experience or knowledge of them.

My last recommendation is to buy quality over price. A good multimeter will last you a long time and will provide confidence in your measurements. A good multimeter will keep you safer than a cheap $2 bin by the door piece of junk.

If you want the cheapest multimeter I can recommend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URKSs02qz5c
This is my review. Only use this for low energy and NOT FOR THE GRID. You probably won't have problems but remember that safety standards were developed because people have been injured and have died.

The next level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eDWb7qkx4A&list=UUZtcuxT4V4kf6aWivAQWCkA
Really nice meter for the price, OK for inverter output use, be VERY careful for grid use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KP1pB4JdGw
Really nice meter for the price, good value, mostly safe for almost anything, IMHO.

Need a cheap clamp meter?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ufZfOmiNj4&list=UUZtcuxT4V4kf6aWivAQWCkA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqdTXfNfgR8&list=UUZtcuxT4V4kf6aWivAQWCkA
I am sure there are others, but this is good enough and the videos also show why I dislike Mastech.

Brymen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXu0lsOjvDs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AnIhAVnvH0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-11wwuUPCw
For the ultimate go for the BM829, BM869, or BM525, depending on your personal fetish. They are not cheap, but still less expensive than Fluke or Agilent. For the best bang for the buck I highly recommend the BM257.

If you want a kick around the field no worry meter, then keep an eye on ebay for Fluke 27/FM meters, used and old new stock. There are some that go for good prices and they are almost indestructible.

These are my opinions and are not to be taken as my personal guarantee of performance or safety. I just hope I can help people make better decisions for a multimeter and not get caught with a bad deal.

I am open to questions and PMS if you are shy. I just want everyone to be safe and not spend more than they need to, but also not buy too cheap and regret it.
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Comments

  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    Les - great info!

    I'd have to say that if you laid ALL of those products on a table, and had to decide upon the reference for all of them, the Fluke would be my standard to calibrate all the others against. :)

    Sometimes it comes down to an issue of trust. I trust my Fluke's to be within spec, or actually even better right out of the box. They are also designed to FAIL gracefully, from componentry to the way the seals are made and so forth.

    Fluke's need not be expensive. For basic voltage monitoring / setting, even the inexpensive Fluke 114 could easily become the reference for all the other solar gear in your system - while I have a recent vintage 87V for electronics work, the 114 is well within close proximity for what we do with solar. It is even good enough for my lithium-based battery setups, where minimal undershoot and overshoot, along with accuracy are important when voltages can change so quickly with that chemistry.

    Here is a very honest review of the 117, which is the same basic meter as the 114, only with a few more features. For just reliable voltage monitoring, do you need more than a 114 in the typical solar environment?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k9nVg03Wi4

    There are a lot of choices out there to be sure, each one fitting a distinct need. For my needs with solar, the Fluke, even the most inexpensive 114 is what I would consider THE reference without having to spend more for just measuring basic battery / panel voltages with accuracy, SPEED, and safety.
  • Les Nagy
    Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    PNjunction

    I agree, You cannot go wrong with Fluke. The caveat is that they cost more for the same features. The Brymens I mentioned are at least as well built as Fluke, have as safe or safer input protection and from my experience and that of others too, and have the same stability as Fluke. The biggest difference in my eyes? Brymens are only guaranteed for 1 year whereas Flukes generally have a lifetime guarantee.

    Flukes don't have to be expensive, but even on the low end for Fluke there are other meters built as safe, with more features, and for the same money.
  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    I took a look at the teardown on the EEVblog video you linked to, and like what I saw inside the Brymen, especially the newer models. UL listed is pretty cool along with CATIV. Nice.

    On a side note, the inexpensive Flukes 11x only have a 3 year warrantee, whereas the higher up usa made models go lifetime.

    For what we do, looks like the Brymen might be some good bang for the buck! Just be sure to get a true-rms model if you intend to measure ac voltages.
  • ILFE
    ILFE Solar Expert Posts: 364 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    I used to have a couple of Fluke 77 multimeters, years ago when I lived stateside. Wish I had not left them behind, honestly.

    Anyway, not too long ago, when I was trying to calibrate my Beta Kid, here in Cambodia, I couldn't find a meter that was close enough to even use. A friend coming over picked up a Klein MM100 from an Ace Hardware near him. I had ordered it through their site and sent to his local store.

    For the money, I cannot complain. I believe it was $26 USD, or there about. It got my Kid on the right track.

    EDIT: Oh, I also own an Extech MA120 clamp on AC / DC Ammeter. It also can detect / read cycles. While it is fairly accurate, it fluctuates too much, and certainly was not worth the money I paid for it, which was something near $100 USD, as I recall. I would not buy Extech again. While stateside this winter, I think I will look at another Fluke to bring home.
    Paul
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    Curious if you have an opinion of the Sears AC/DC clamp meter?

    I replace an old (very) Amprobe analog zeroing DC clamp meter with it, and they match pretty close. It does carry UL cert. Any Idea from the shape as to the maker?
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,422 admin
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    The Sears clamp meter is cheap (relatively speaking). And seems to be good enough for our debugging use.

    The temperature function did fail for me--Don't know if it was the meter or the thermocouple itself.... But I don't use it.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Les Nagy
    Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    ILFE wrote: »
    Anyway, not too long ago, when I was trying to calibrate my Beta Kid, here in Cambodia, I couldn't find a meter that was close enough to even use. A friend coming over picked up a Klein MM100 from an Ace Hardware near him. I had ordered it through their site and sent to his local store.

    For the money, I cannot complain. I believe it was $26 USD, or there about. It got my Kid on the right track.

    That multimeter is a re-branded Mastech MS8233A.
    http://www.p-mastech.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=45&category_id=3&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29

    If it did the job, then that's good. Just don't trust it to stay accurate nor safe for anything high voltage and/or energy.
  • Les Nagy
    Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    Photowhit wrote: »
    Curious if you have an opinion of the Sears AC/DC clamp meter?

    I replace an old (very) Amprobe analog zeroing DC clamp meter with it, and they match pretty close. It does carry UL cert. Any Idea from the shape as to the maker?

    That is a re-branded CEM model, specifically:
    http://www.cem-instruments.com/en/pro/pro-520.html
    CEM is an OEM for many other brands, or should I say they supply re-branded models to many other companies, including Extech their EX models. Their build quality can be very variable. They might have very poor soldering joints, selector dials that break easily, etc. Sears generally does not sell complete junk but if you have one of these I would open it up and see if there are any glaring build issues. If you see nothing then I would trust it.

    It can be had for less money as an original CEM brand, for example:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-CEM-DT-330-Mini-AC-AC-DC-Autoranging-Clamp-Meters-LCD-display-2000-counts-/111221148534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e54c0b76
    Sears has a better warranty I think.

    It does not do True RMS and IMHO when you are trying to troubleshoot problems it is nice to have True RMS. The Uni-T UT204A I mentioned earlier does not have it neither.
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    Les Nagy wrote: »
    CEM is an OEM for many other brands, or should I say they supply re-branded models to many other companies, including Extech their EX models. Their build quality can be very variable. They might have very poor soldering joints, selector dials that break easily, etc. Sears generally does not sell complete junk but if you have one of these I would open it up and see if there are any glaring build issues. If you see nothing then I would trust it.

    I just got on from Sears mail order.
    Initial impressions:

    1. UI is not very convenient, with the highly overloaded function switch positions.
    2. The troubleshooting section of the manual advises you to check the fuse, but gives no indication where the fuse is located. I presume you have to unscrew the entire back, since it is not accessible from the battery compartment like some of my older meters.
    3. I do like the ability to autorange and also select manual ranging for those situations where the voltage is changing and I would rather have a stable display than a three digit resolution of a voltage that is too small to worry about anyway.
    No idea if I will ever use the capacitance or frequency ranges. The temperature is kind of cool, but the accuracy of the probe in temperatures near ambient (e.g. panel temps, etc.) is so low as to be of limited use.
    4. Supply your own AAA batteries. At least they did not put in a pair of carbon zinc for demo that you would just have to replace anyway.
    5. The readout, and particularly the range and mode indicators are too small to be visible without a magnifier. :(
    6. The backlight could be a lot better. I prefer electroluminescent behind the LCD to the three small edge-light LEDs this uses.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • Les Nagy
    Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    inetdog wrote: »
    I just got on from Sears mail order.
    2. The troubleshooting section of the manual advises you to check the fuse, but gives no indication where the fuse is located. I presume you have to unscrew the entire back, since it is not accessible from the battery compartment like some of my older meters.

    I am sure that there is no fuse. That meter does not have current measurement using the leads. Fuses are only used for current measurements on leads so I suspect they just use a generic troubleshooting section that is the same for all multimeters.
  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    ILFE wrote: »
    For the money, I cannot complain. I believe it was $26 USD, or there about. It got my Kid on the right track.

    OUCH! Now your Kid is only as accurate as a $26 multimeter. I would bet bottom dollar the Kid was far more accurate than the meter!

    I understand your predicament, but I think what Les and I were getting at is that in the sub-$100 range, you are really taking some chances. In Les's case, some of the Brymen meters are actually good. For me, I have to have even more assurance of OOTB out-of-the-box trustworthiness and stick to Fluke, even their low-end range.

    It basically comes down to how much importance you place in your tools. Do you want to repeatedly buy the cheaper stuff, and gamble on innacuracy, or spend more for quality, and some reasonable assurance of accuracy out of the box when you have no calibrated source to compare it to? Sub-100 meters are just too much of a gamble, at least for me.

    I also had an Extech, and while the features were good, the temperature was way off, and yep - the display had enough resolution, but would never settle down and wandered around. Continuity checking was a complete joke.

    Buy something decent once, and hang onto it for a lifetime. Or in the case of the venerable old Fluke 8060A, until 2 or 3 decades pass and the caps fail. I'm pretty sure an Extech can't claim the same. :)
  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    Les Nagy wrote: »
    Fuses are only used for current measurements on leads so I suspect they just use a generic troubleshooting section that is the same for all multimeters.

    Side note - if you buy or get a used multimeter, be SURE to doublecheck that the internal fuse hasn't been swapped out with some cheezy glass-fuse, even if it is rated the same in amperage. There is a reason quality multimeters use "HRC" fuses, and cost quite a lot. In my Fluke's that's about $10 a piece for HRC. Bite the bullet and replace it with the *proper* fuse for the meter.
  • Les Nagy
    Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    To satisfy PNJunction's love for Fluke, I added a specific recommendation for a "budget" Fluke meter in the original post.:D
  • ILFE
    ILFE Solar Expert Posts: 364 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    Les Nagy wrote: »
    That multimeter is a re-branded Mastech MS8233A.
    http://www.p-mastech.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=45&category_id=3&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29

    If it did the job, then that's good. Just don't trust it to stay accurate nor safe for anything high voltage and/or energy.

    Thanks for the information. No, I will only be using it for low voltage DC, nothing more.

    I will make it a point to look for another Fluke then, while stateside.
    Paul
  • Les Nagy
    Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    A Fluke is not a necessity. That brand just seems to have a big fan following. They are good, some might say the best, but they aren't the best bang for the buck. The Brymen BM257 is really a great meter and for a great price.
  • ILFE
    ILFE Solar Expert Posts: 364 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    PNjunction wrote: »
    OUCH! Now your Kid is only as accurate as a $26 multimeter. I would bet bottom dollar the Kid was far more accurate than the meter!

    Well, in this case, I had issues with the Kid until I received this meter and used it to calibrate the controller. Prior to then, the controller relay would click, and the display would go blank. I would have to reboot the controller every time. I finally gave up until I received the multimeter. I may have just gotten lucky. I don't know. EIther way, the Kid has been working ever since. It wasn't doing so prior to then.

    You have to understand, in Southeast Asia, we do not have the conveniences one has in the west. Many companies, listed on eBay or by direct sales, do not, will not ship to Cambodia (and other countries). I can't just ring up a company, give them my credit card number and receive the meter of my choice in a few days. Usually, I am at the mercy of people arriving from abroad, and what they are willing to bring when with them. Then, I have to travel up to 7 hours in order to get the item(s) they have willingly brought over for me. In short, we have to get what we can, when we can, however we can.

    Not sure where you live. But, once you have left your home (western) country, and have been away as long as I have - almost 15 years now, you start to really think of things that you have missed - things that you take oh, so for granted when they are available every day.

    With that said, things will be much different when I return from the states. I will have 2 pieces of check in luggage from the US, each filled with 23 kilos (~50 pounds) of electronics brought home with me. I will probably bring back a good Fluke - or, perhaps another meter that Sir Nagy has recommended here. My Kid will be happier too, I'm sure. :)
    Paul
  • Les Nagy
    Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    To make it clear, I am a Canadian living Chile. Perhaps not as difficult as Cambodia for purchasing things, but I have many problems with long delivery times to get things here. The seller I have mentioned is a good guy and if you use my name he will probably give you no hassles will shipping to you. The one thing with living in Cambodia is the humidity. Perhaps you would be better served with an environmentally sealed meter. None of the Brymens have specific IP ratings for this, but they are very well sealed as is most of the higher end Flukes.
  • ILFE
    ILFE Solar Expert Posts: 364 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    Les Nagy wrote: »
    To make it clear, I am a Canadian living Chile. Perhaps not as difficult as Cambodia for purchasing things, but I have many problems with long delivery times to get things here. The seller I have mentioned is a good guy and if you use my name he will probably give you no hassles will shipping to you. The one thing with living in Cambodia is the humidity. Perhaps you would be better served with an environmentally sealed meter. None of the Brymens have specific IP ratings for this, but they are very well sealed as is most of the higher end Flukes.

    I am definitely looking at Brymen meters as well. I see the one you recommended. eBay sample BM257

    Humidity here can be brutal. Fortunately, I no longer reside at the beach. We are much farther inland, now, away from large bodies of water. So, it is a bit lower here than before.

    I truly appreciate your time and efforts in starting, and continuing this thread. I am quite sure it will benefit myself and many others, in the future.
    Paul
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    Les, thanks for putting together this thread.

    I will speak up for cheap meters... (this is what I use)

    First of all, I agree that you can't trust the accuracy of a cheap meter from a calibration perspective. But for troubleshooting they work fine in most circumstances. The key is that the meter give repeatable results, even if the results are not accurate.

    I routinely use my very cheap dvm to compare voltages in my system... across batteries, interconnects, cables, etc. If one 6 volt battery reads 0.2 volts higher than another, that means something... even if I don't know the actual voltage of the batteries to a Fluke calibration standard.

    I adjust my absorb voltage up or down using a hydrometer, not a volt meter. I certainly do understand the need for calibrated accuracy when charging AGM or LiFePO4 batteries.

    The same considerations apply to the infrared temp sensors... I don't care what the temperature of that connection is... I do care that my cheap IR sensor shows that connection is 20° warmer than the other connections. That's all I need to know.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • Les Nagy
    Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    ILFE wrote: »
    I am definitely looking at Brymen meters as well. I see the one you recommended. eBay sample BM257

    Humidity here can be brutal. Fortunately, I no longer reside at the beach. We are much farther inland, now, away from large bodies of water. So, it is a bit lower here than before.

    I truly appreciate your time and efforts in starting, and continuing this thread. I am quite sure it will benefit myself and many others, in the future.

    Actually, the BM257 is not well sealed. I forgot this until I read your message and I would recommend other models for really humid areas. The BM817a is a better choice at a bit more money. The BM829, BM521 and BM525, BM857 and BM859, BM867 and BM869 are all really great choices for a really good multimeter for not too much money compared to other major brands. In particular the BM857 is a really good buy if you don't mind not having temperature measurement and the poor back light. I have heard that they have improved the back light on this series recently but I cannot say for sure.

    So for anyone not in a really humid climate the BM257 is a really great meter. There are other brands and models for bad ambient conditions but they tend to be either from CEM in cheap and unreliably built models, or from Fluke, Amprobe, Agilent, and others at really high prices.

    If you want a great meter for really bad environments but don't want to spend a pile of money then the Fluke 27/FM is the best buy and can be found on ebay in used and new old stock condition. It is only 3200 count, has no temperature, no back light, but it is built like the proverbial brick outhouse. Only some version are True-RMS. The yellow with grey front version are the latest but not True-RMS. The all grey version with "FM" on the front bezel are the True-RMS versions. The Fluke 17B is not well sealed BTW so if you want a well sealed from Fluke the choices are the 27/FM or some much more expensive models.

    CEM has some IP67 rated multimeters. They are water proof and dust proof, but I am not fond of CEM and the Extech re-brands as the build quality control seems to be rather haphazard. If you get good one they are a good value for the money as far as getting an IP67 meter. An example:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZCU_9_xesU&index=4&list=PLB46F445E454CD696
    You can see some of the performance issues with this meter.
  • Les Nagy
    Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Les, thanks for putting together this thread.

    I will speak up for cheap meters... (this is what I use)
    --vtMaps

    Cheap meters do have their place, but only if they are reliable. From what I can see from the reviews on the Radioshack website for your meter, it has a horrible track record. Hopefully you got a good one. Even if you are only comparing voltages on batteries and not their absolute values, the meter might not even hold accuracy from one battery to the other. Yes this is possible. My friend purchased a cheap clamp meter and just holding it the contacts inside on the selector dial change a bit and the readings go all over the place. If you really don't want to spend any kind of money on a multimeter then at least consider the Uni-T UT136B that I recommended in my first post.
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    Les Nagy wrote: »
    Even if you are only comparing voltages on batteries and not their absolute values, the meter might not even hold accuracy from one battery to the other. Yes this is possible.

    A meter like that is worthless. I did qualify my statement in praise of cheap meters:
    The key is that the meter give repeatable results, even if the results are not accurate.

    I really am not trying to speak in favor of shoddily built meters... I am just not convinced that calibration accuracy is important for most troubleshooting.

    For sealed LA batteries and LiFePO4 batteries, I can see the need to know exactly what voltage they are at.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    vtmaps wrote: »
    I really am not trying to speak in favor of shoddily built meters... I am just not convinced that calibration accuracy is important for most troubleshooting. --vtMaps

    I agree. Much of my troubleshooting over the past 40 years did not require high accuracy. Granted, there are many times when high accuracy is needed, but that's definitely not the case all the time. Things similar to checking alternator output, as long as it's in the area of 14.5 all is well, there's no need to know if it's 14.44 or 14.57 etc.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    You can get good meters for low prices. The trouble is you never know how good they are until you buy them.
    Unless you read a thread like this with the experiences of others. :D

    My cheap meter works well.
  • Les Nagy
    Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    The accuracy of a meter may not be important for certain things. The thing is, the build quality of the meter determines the long term accuracy and reliability. They all tend to go hand in hand. If you want to measure a voltage trend of a battery the difference in voltages is what is important. The problem with a cheap meter is that they can read so differently from one reading to the next, or drift over time, that it can throw off your results. My whole point is to not buy something cheap and expect it to be reliable in any way. If you buy one good multimeter then you don't have to worry about reliability, whether you should use it for 220V, grid measurement, whatever. Good tools are never a bad investment. Everyone has their own opinion, I am just trying to help with some experience and information.

    If you do use a cheap meter, especially if they have transistor testers and other extra sockets and openings, then do not hold the meter. Put it down so should an arc escape via the extra sockets you won't get burned.

    I am not trying to pick on anyone. I am just trying to inform. Knowledge is power.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    Knowing what you're doing with the meter is a big help too. Honestly I had someone concerned because their "12 Volt" system was showing over 14 Volts and they were sure there was something wrong!

    So I use a $10 meter.
    But I use it with a really expensive brain. :D
  • ILFE
    ILFE Solar Expert Posts: 364 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable
    I agree. Much of my troubleshooting over the past 40 years did not require high accuracy. Granted, there are many times when high accuracy is needed, but that's definitely not the case all the time. Things similar to checking alternator output, as long as it's in the area of 14.5 all is well, there's no need to know if it's 14.44 or 14.57 etc.

    I see your point. But, in calibrating a Kid, for example, or for any solar battery voltage testing and when comparing to specific gravity readings - OR, for sealed batteries where we cannot check SG, wouldn't one want a more accurate meter? I would think the more accuracy one can have, especially when it comes to his / her battery bank, would be pretty important?
    Paul
  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    All good points guys. I'm really not trying to be a Fluke snob. There are other meters worthy of consideration, but there IS a price point where the manufacturer is cutting costs with componentry from the lowest bidder, and that is usually in the sub-$100 market.

    Accuracy isn't the only consideration, but repeatability from out of the box to 10 years from now is! If you have an accurate meter that can maintain that accuracy over long periods of time, you can spot trends well before they become problems.

    Also consider that many cheap meter's accuracy is not regulated - that is their accuracy depends on the voltage of the battery at the time! If you have fresh batteries, and some tired old ones not completely dead, swap them out and take another measurement. This is one reason I use non-rechargeable AA lithiums in my el-cheapo RS clamp-on ammeter. I'm still saving up for a good Fluke AC/DC ammeter so I can just purchase it and be done with it for decades. :)

    What is REAL handy to have is a min/max recording feature. I use it often to vet that chargers are actually doing what they are supposed to be doing, like what voltage they actually reach in absorb before going to float. Keeps me from having to babysit right next to them. It is how I caught Schumacher speed-chargers going WAY over-voltage on each chemistry.
  • Les Nagy
    Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    If you really want a Fluke, then the Fluke 289 would be one of the best meters for solar use, but a bit expensive. The standard everyone seems to use is the 87V but it is low on features for the price. Then there is the 28II EX. That will shock your wallet!
  • mtdoc
    mtdoc Solar Expert Posts: 600 ✭✭
    Re: Which mulitmeter? My opinion for those looking for something reliable

    Les knows his meters.

    I have several meters including a Brymen 257 and a Fluke 87V, as well as several cheaper meters. Honestly, most of the time I reach for the Brymen 257 first. It's a great meter.

    I can also vouch for Franky from 99 cent hobbies on the Ebay link in the first post - though it looks like he is on vacation now. I've bought several items from him including my Brymen meter.