Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

Hill_CountryHill_Country Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭
Can anyone recommend a suitable pump for pumping grey water out of an underground grey water holding tank (= glorified septic tank...only it holds grey water, not black water!) to help water some plants that are about 50+ feet away via a garden hose? The preferred output flow would be enough to have acceptable flow out of a garden hose that is 50+ ft. long, keeping in mind that the grey water holding tank is underground and the pump will have to pump the water up, out of the tank, which could be 6 - 7 ft. deep.

I've done some research and it looks like you pretty much have to use some sort of effluent/septic pump (either submersible or non-submersible), even though grey water may not have as much 'debris' in it as black water. Our grey water is coming from our bathroom sink, shower, and laundry and we are going to great lengths to limit the amount of hair/etc. in the grey water; even to the point of using more suitable soap (vs. laundry detergent). The grey water system will be permitted and everything, we just need a way to reuse the grey water on some fruit trees and vegetation that is 50+ feet away. Wire runs are an issue, as the tank will be about 200ft. or so from the Inverter/Batteries. That will probably preclude any 12v DC application...

Any suggestions?
100% Off-grid with: 8 Solarworld 275 Watt Panels, 8 Concorde SunXtender 405aH 6v AGM Batteries, MS-4448PAE 48v Inverter, MidNite Solar Classic 200 Charge Controller, 10,000 gallon rainwater collection system, etc.

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,925 admin
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

    Will you have a sprinkler or similar on the hose.

    Just flowing water can be lower pressure. Otherwise you may need 20-40+psi to drive flow through the spray nozzle.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

    How often will you need to do this? Occasionally or on-demand?
    I'm thinking sump pump type application.
  • CDN_VTCDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

    Hill ,
    I just purchased a Leader Pump "Solid Answer 4" Is a submersible 250 watt start as I can see on Watt-0-meter but with 4 ' head and 100' of old fire hose it's using 210 watts after 3/4 hr. Im using this to pump out my "duck pond" on to my gardens . The Duck pond is a huge 10 x 20 ' old hot tub that I dug a hole & buried it. Ducks poop and wash 1/2 there food / mud , grass etc . After a few weeks in the hot summer It stinks. So the pond is pumped out on to the garden. refills with a shallow well also solar driven , this time of year , fill is 4 days , winter is 5 hrs.
    HTH's
    VT
    If I find time & the scanner I should upload the manual it came with covers all models . Made for the solar crowd in Italy .

    Im 120V ac powered off my small SS 300 . Edit add . Forgot that bit
  • Hill_CountryHill_Country Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

    This pump would be used every other day or so. We would prefer to have it operate on demand, rather than automatically.

    We are looking for garden hose usage only; no planned spray application (i.e. no sprinkler).
    100% Off-grid with: 8 Solarworld 275 Watt Panels, 8 Concorde SunXtender 405aH 6v AGM Batteries, MS-4448PAE 48v Inverter, MidNite Solar Classic 200 Charge Controller, 10,000 gallon rainwater collection system, etc.
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use
    Our grey water is coming from our bathroom sink, shower, and laundry and we are going to great lengths to limit the amount of hair/etc. in the grey water; even to the point of using more suitable soap (vs. laundry detergent). The grey water system will be permitted and everything, we just need a way to reuse the grey water on some fruit trees and vegetation that is 50+ feet away.

    Maybe someone could explain something to me that I've wondered about.... How can grey water be considered safer than black water?

    I mean... what if you wash diapers in the laundry? And I always thought the reason you wash your hands after using the toilet is to get the "black water" stuff off your hands.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Maybe someone could explain something to me that I've wondered about.... How can grey water be considered safer than black water?

    I mean... what if you wash diapers in the laundry? And I always thought the reason you wash your hands after using the toilet is to get the "black water" stuff off your hands.

    --vtMaps

    What's the difference between black and gray? Concentration of pigment.
    In the case of water it's concentration of contaminant.
    There used to be a catch phrase in civil engineering: "The solution to pollution is dilution." This was later revised with the word "dilution' being replaced with "evolution" to indicate the need for better solutions than just watering things down to where the parts per million were no longer deemed hazardous.

    The end result here is not the quality of water after it sits in the tank, but how much "final processing" is needed for it to be considered safe. Gray water still has to be kept away from fresh water sources and would still be hazardous on the surface (even though that's often the best way to clean it up as aerobic bacteria works on it) but you'd be amazed what plants can do for digesting the nastier components.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use
    (even though that's often the best way to clean it up as aerobic bacteria works on it) but you'd be amazed what plants can do for digesting the nastier components.

    And that is why there is a fancy, pricey engineered solution now, an air pump in the Septic tank and the secondary holding tank used in this area for new installs... that produces output that is rated 'safe to drink', just not by me... it also recirculates some of the 'active' fluids from tank 2 to tank 1,....just add $20,000 more + to a regular system


    just found this link in bookmarks...http://rewater.com/ and this one https://www.thenaturalhome.com/greywater.html
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
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  • pechanpechan Solar Expert Posts: 92 ✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

    I have been using this pump for about 2 years to pump my greywater.

    http://www.murdochs.com/shop/honda-1-3hp-submersible-pump-wsp33
  • Hill_CountryHill_Country Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

    Thank you all for giving your suggestions on grey water pumps. It looks like the Honda WSP33 is a pretty good option, although I'm a little worried about the current draw at startup (10A) and running (4A). On the other hand, the Leader Solid Answer 4 looks good too, although I'm not sure how it will do in a grey water situation. It says it handles "dirty" water and solids up to a certain size, but I still don't have any idea how it would actually perform in a grey water pumping situation. On the plus side, the Leader Solid Answer 4 only uses about 1.9 amps while running.

    Feel free to provide any experiences you've had with either of these pumps. Do they work like you expected? Do they handle grey water effectively?

    Right now I'm leaning towards the Leader Solid Answer 4 only because it's a smaller current draw and the fact that it doesn't have a float switch.
    100% Off-grid with: 8 Solarworld 275 Watt Panels, 8 Concorde SunXtender 405aH 6v AGM Batteries, MS-4448PAE 48v Inverter, MidNite Solar Classic 200 Charge Controller, 10,000 gallon rainwater collection system, etc.
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

    I don't see where the Leader pump would be a issue. It has a grate on the bottom to limit the size of the solids it will pump. If your in doubt you can install the pump in a pump bag with the size mesh of the solids that you want to allow through. I run them on all my submersibles.

    http://www.amazon.com/Danner-12315-18-Inch-24-Inch-Small/dp/B0018CM0W0
  • CDN_VTCDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

    If your grey water has more solids than my duck ponds , your shaded blind . Mine is not for pressure , volume transfer only . run off ss300 .
    I use 300' of 1.5" firehose to move the poop smell , then flush the hose in the fish ponds .. This IS NOT a pressure pump !!!

    VT
  • Hill_CountryHill_Country Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

    I'm looking into the Leader Solid Answer 4 submersible pump and will be emailing Leader some specific questions; I will post back what I hear so that others know and are aware.

    I'm just looking for a way to irrigate with grey water, on a daily basis, from an underground grey water holding tank up to the surface using a standard garden hose that will probably be in the neighborhood of about 50-75 ft. in length. All I'm looking for is an acceptable flow out of a 50-75 ft. garden hose...no sprayers, no drip lines, nothing like that. Based on the specs of the Leader Solid Answer, and CDN_VT's description, I don't think it will be a problem.

    Thanks!
    100% Off-grid with: 8 Solarworld 275 Watt Panels, 8 Concorde SunXtender 405aH 6v AGM Batteries, MS-4448PAE 48v Inverter, MidNite Solar Classic 200 Charge Controller, 10,000 gallon rainwater collection system, etc.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

    My experience with a sump pump is that you get about a 10 foot lift from the bottom of the hole, or where the pump is lowered to

    and then the pressure drops like a stone.. Up to that point they produce copious quantities...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

    Also look at "trash pumps" we use to use these to pump out grey water on ships and boats. I use to know a "skinny guy" who could get in the tiny spaces of ships tanks. He named his price and always got it!
    I'm looking into the Leader Solid Answer 4 submersible pump and will be emailing Leader some specific questions; I will post back what I hear so that others know and are aware.

    I'm just looking for a way to irrigate with grey water, on a daily basis, from an underground grey water holding tank up to the surface using a standard garden hose that will probably be in the neighborhood of about 50-75 ft. in length. All I'm looking for is an acceptable flow out of a 50-75 ft. garden hose...no sprayers, no drip lines, nothing like that. Based on the specs of the Leader Solid Answer, and CDN_VT's description, I don't think it will be a problem.

    Thanks!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use
    ..... from an underground grey water holding tank up to the surface.....

    Sadly, storing "gray" water, quickly turns it into some really nasty sewer water. Dead skin cells from the shower, dirt from laundry..... If you are going to store it, look into an aeration system or even an ozone bubbler to keep the water fresh enough so you don't gag from the smell.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
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  • CDN_VTCDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use
    mike95490 wrote: »
    you do gag from the smell.

    & that lets you know that the Duck poop / gray area is there !!

    You do know on first, second & 3rd cutting of hay fields , farmers flood / spray the pig / cow / sheep poop on those fields , Just to clean out locals nostrils .. Be more concerned about : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLoaLbE_B_w

    Many of us are here on the wet coast . Clean dirt IS POO , mud & it can be washed off , Bad stuff is cooties in expended hypos , to hacking workers in the food segment or the processing plants .. Seriously !! Gray water is just fine. My 96 YO neighbour asked me 7 years ago to help him fix his GW septic from 1954 .. He dug the trenching line by HAND !! Used it the same way ..
    Please , gray water is not for drinking , but plants will do good. Using bio soaps & more suitable laundry detergent. Been fine for us over 6 years , grape trees to strawberry are great , Root crops don't get this treatment due to perk out.

    VT
  • Hill_CountryHill_Country Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use

    Anyone had any experience with a Rule A53D 1800 Sump Pump in a grey water setup?
    100% Off-grid with: 8 Solarworld 275 Watt Panels, 8 Concorde SunXtender 405aH 6v AGM Batteries, MS-4448PAE 48v Inverter, MidNite Solar Classic 200 Charge Controller, 10,000 gallon rainwater collection system, etc.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Grey water tank pump recommendations for off-grid use
    Anyone had any experience with a Rule A53D 1800 Sump Pump in a grey water setup?

    Rule makes excellent bilge pumps and if the model is rated for a bilge pump it will only need one more thing if it is used to keep your boat afloat. Obviously your application is not as critical and so you do not need the spare bilge pump plumbed in a few inches above the first one. They will pump 50 weight diesel engine oil that has been contaminated with all the lovely things that fall into the bilge of a boat in the tropics. Everything grows there!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Hill_CountryHill_Country Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭
    To provide an update on this, we ended up going with a cheap "Little Giant" submersible pond/fountain pump in the 200-300 gph range. This actually works perfectly as the flow from the hose is perfect for watering by a garden hose in our garden.
    100% Off-grid with: 8 Solarworld 275 Watt Panels, 8 Concorde SunXtender 405aH 6v AGM Batteries, MS-4448PAE 48v Inverter, MidNite Solar Classic 200 Charge Controller, 10,000 gallon rainwater collection system, etc.
  • JoshKJoshK Solar Expert Posts: 232 ✭✭
    About the smell... I read somewhere it's actually recommended to put a drop or two? of bleach into a water bottle if you are storing tap water (for drinking later) for very long periods of time. So in a grey water system, could you add the appropriate ratio of bleach to reduce bacterial growth that leads to the smell?
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,925 admin
    Grey Water can be a complex subject to get right... Here is one place that may help:

    http://greywateraction.org/

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    JoshK wrote: »
    About the smell... I read somewhere it's actually recommended to put a drop or two? of bleach into a water bottle if you are storing tap water (for drinking later) for very long periods of time. So in a grey water system, could you add the appropriate ratio of bleach to reduce bacterial growth that leads to the smell?

    If you want to use the grey water on plants, the chlorine must dissipate to to a very low level. If the tap water is from a municipal source you really need to measure it. Bill's link is really good and I thank him for the rain he is sending east to us. Hold the lightning though....
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,925 admin
    Regarding Chlorine, there is a "new" process: [h=3]Chloramines in Drinking Water[/h] Where the "chlorine" does not dissipate in hours/days in open air.

    It appears that the 1/2 life of chloramines may be on the order of 155 hours (~6.5 days)--And it can take 5-7+ 1/2 lives to dissipate to "low" levels (month of more of "standing"????).

    http://www.morebeer.com/articles/removing_chloramines_from_water

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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