Greetings from new user (pics inside)

13»

Comments

  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Greetings from new user (pics inside)

    Ole,

    600 ah battery with only 11 amps of charge capacity is a bit light. I understand you only draw on the weekends,,, and have the week to recharge,, but going forward,, more panels might be welcome.

    Tony
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,011 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Greetings from new user (pics inside)

    He's just doubled the array size, but sure, more power is always nice to have.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Greetings from new user (pics inside)

    I realize that he has doubled his PV,,, but even with the doubling he is still at the very low end of the range.

    Tony
  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 204 ✭✭✭
    Re: Greetings from new user (pics inside)

    Hi Tony,

    Yes I know I am on the low end of the range but I also have a generator that I can connect to the Victron inverter. The Victron inverter has a built in 50A charger.

    I have only charged the batteries twice so far using the generator (last fall and a right after I bought the system in 2007). I guess this will change soon because I am installing a water system (a water tank that I fill up manually, with a pressure triggered, 130W pump and propane water heater). I will also install a digital TV decoder so my kids can watch TV.

    Ole
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Greetings from new user (pics inside)

    Ole,

    Youare discovering the slippery slope of loads! Water pump,, TV, satellite dish,,Internet dish/modem. You are where I was 10 years ago. Keep resisting the urge for more loads,,,,, betcha can't!

    Good luck,, sounds like you have a nice spot. Are you just about through your ice season? We have had warm days,,, +15c with overnight lows ~-5. All the snow is off the ice,,, and the bush is getting bare here and there. I suspect our ice will be out in about another 3 weeks or so.

    Tony
  • dagr51dagr51 Solar Expert Posts: 72 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Greetings from new user (pics inside)

    Is your water tank underground? Mounted on a platform or some other way to take advantage of gravity? How large? How do you hump water in to your cabin? Lots of questions, but you have gotten my attention!
  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 204 ✭✭✭
    Re: Greetings from new user (pics inside)
    dagr51 wrote: »
    Is your water tank underground? Mounted on a platform or some other way to take advantage of gravity? How large? How do you hump water in to your cabin? Lots of questions, but you have gotten my attention!

    Hi,

    Please remember that my cabin is in Norway not far from the Arctic Circle.

    My water tank is 80 liters and sits on the floor inside the cabin and I have to carry the water in buckets from a near by river and poor into the tank. The law in my country allow me to do this without any wastewater treatment. If I run the water through a pipe from outside the cabin to the inside I have to install a large and expensive wastewater treatment system.

    Ole
  • dagr51dagr51 Solar Expert Posts: 72 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Greetings from new user (pics inside)

    Got it. Thanks for the update!
  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 204 ✭✭✭
    Re: Greetings from new user (pics inside)
    icarus wrote: »
    Ole,

    Youare discovering the slippery slope of loads! Water pump,, TV, satellite dish,,Internet dish/modem. You are where I was 10 years ago. Keep resisting the urge for more loads,,,,, betcha can't!

    Good luck,, sounds like you have a nice spot. Are you just about through your ice season? We have had warm days,,, +15c with overnight lows ~-5. All the snow is off the ice,,, and the bush is getting bare here and there. I suspect our ice will be out in about another 3 weeks or so.

    Tony

    Yes I am discovering the slippery slope of loads. At the same time I have also made up my mind to run a 12V cable from the tool shed to the cabin for lighting during night time. This way I can turn off the inverter and save a few Ah. I have also, as I wrote in another thread, ordered a SureSine inverter that has much lower no-load self consumption. I will use relays in the tool shed and a switch in my cabin to switch between the two (during my search for relays to use I discovered that this was not as easy as I thought. More on that later).

    The temperatures you have are almost identical to the temperatures over here now. In the city, where we live the snow is almost gone.

    Ole
  • solarnewbiesolarnewbie Registered Users Posts: 11
    Re: Greetings from new user (pics inside)

    Hi OS,

    I'm curious about your earlier specs ( 1 80w bp panel and two 350A batteries)
    What did you use on those in terms of TV and Lights and for how long?
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,142 admin
    Re: Greetings from new user (pics inside)

    SolarNewbie,

    You can very roughly size an Off-Grid solar systems AC (120/230 VAC) output by:
    • Number of "Full Sun" hours per day... 5-6+ hours per day in summer (equivalent to "noontime sun").
    • Size of Panel in Watts (assume ~82% of factory rating)
    • Assume flooded cell storage battery (80% efficient) and reasonably efficient AC inverter (85% efficient)
    • Derating factor of 52% (or 0.52) from above
    • Assume fixed mounted (not tracking array) tilted at the angle of your latitude.
    Assuming you are in a very sunny area and get 6 hours of sun per day (UAE?)

    80 watt panels * 6 hours sun per day * 52% = 240 Watt*Hours per day

    If you have a 50 watt TV running 2 hours and a 13 watt CFL lamp for 4 hours:

    100 Watt*Hours = 50 watts * 2 hours (TV)
    52 Watt*Hours = 13 watts * 4 hours (CFL Lamp)
    =================================
    152 Watt*Hours of daily load

    So, an 80 watt panel could easily supply the above load (240WH of energy vs 152 WH of load)...

    If you are making an off-grid system for daily use (vs an emergency backup power which may have fewer batteries)--we usually use the rule of thumb for 3 days of no sun plus a maximum of 50% discharge... Or the battery would be sized:

    3 days of no load * 1/50% = 6x your daily operating load.

    To figure out 350AH x 2 of 12 volt batteries and how much recommended load:

    350 AH * 2 batteries in parallel * 12 volts / 6 battery sizing factor = 1,500 Watt*Hours of useful storage...

    In this example, with my above example load of ~152 Watt*Hours per day, such a battery bank would supply:

    1,500 Watt*Hours / 152 Watt*Hours per day = 9.9 days of "no sun" storage...

    Now, we would recommend that your batteries be charged at 5%-13% of the batteries 20 Hour AH rating...

    350 AH * 2 * 12 volts * 5% = 420 watts of solar panels
    350 AH * 2 * 12 volts * 13% = 1,092 watts of solar panels

    If you don't have enough solar panels, then normally we would expect that a generator would need to be used once in a while to recharge your battery bank (typically, run the genset when the batteries fall below 75% state of charge).

    Anyway--you really need to understand your loads/needs and how much sun you have available in your area (by season, if it matters). Then we can help size your system to your needs.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 204 ✭✭✭
    Re: Greetings from new user (pics inside)
    Hi OS,

    I'm curious about your earlier specs ( 1 80w bp panel and two 350A batteries)
    What did you use on those in terms of TV and Lights and for how long?

    We are usually not using the system for more than three days at a time with an average draw of around 50Ah per day.

    OS
  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 204 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016 #74
    Hi!

    It has been a while since I posted my first message here in 2008. In the years after that I have slowly upgraded my system. First from Morningstar Sunsaver MPPT to Rogue MPPT and now Morningstar Tristar MPPT 60 charge controller. My battery bank have stayed the same until last fall, two Concorde 12V 305Ah batteries. Three years ago I upgraded my system to 24V and rewired my old Concorde batteries from parallel to series. I also upgraded my solar panels to two 200W panels. Finally last fall I replaced the Concorde with 12 Fuli 200Ah/6V batteries for a total of 600Ah/24V.

    My cabin is in the Norwegian mountains and it can be very cold during the winter and two times I have experienced that my batteries have frozen while deeply discharged. So now I finally have decided to build a new "tool shed" with a cellar underground where I can store the batteries. Hopefully the temp will be above freezing in the cellar.

    I had a company dig the hole and make the concrete walls but the woodwork I will do myself. Below are a couple of pictures. I will post more pictures later. And yes, the distance from the ground to the top of the concrete is too small. It should have been at least 20cm (8 inches). I need to fix that.

    Ole 



  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,142 admin
    Hi Ole,

    Nice to hear from you again--I missed you.

    You were working on your own battery monitor design (as I recall)--Did you ever get a chance to finish it?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    _OS_ said:
     So now I finally have decided to build a new "tool shed" with a cellar underground where I can store the batteries.
    I hope you have designed a clever, near effortless system to get batteries in and out of the cellar. 

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,142 admin
    edited June 2016 #77
    A "floor hatch" with overhead block and tackle?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 204 ✭✭✭
    BB. said:
    Hi Ole,

    Nice to hear from you again--I missed you.

    You were working on your own battery monitor design (as I recall)--Did you ever get a chance to finish it?

    -Bill
    Hi Bill,

    Yes I made a remote display for my battery monitor that I used for a couple of years. I have since upgraded my system and now I have an Android app (mentioned in another thread on this forum) that reads the essential data from my Tristar MPPT 60.

    Yes I plan to have a floor hatch (the "cut out" can be seen in the picture above) and a tackle.
  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 204 ✭✭✭
    Hi everyone!

    My project is coming along very well. Below are a couple of pictures.



  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looking good!

    As well as helping keep the batteries warmer in winter, having them underground will keep them cooler in summer. Mine are in an enclosed and mostly insulated crawlspace, which really moderates temperature in a climate likely similar to yours. Keeping them cooler should help them last longer, but they do lose some apparent capacity.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 204 ✭✭✭
    A lot of snow this winter! This was taken a couple of weeks ago:
  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 204 ✭✭✭
    edited September 29 #82
    Hi again!

    Have moved my batteries to the cellar this summer. In the picture below the battery bank to the right is my main bank. The four Concorde to the left are for "emergency" and can charge the main bank via a DC/DC converter. I control this remotely via an app on my mobile. Also I doubled my PVs (to 800W) and made a mount for them.

    PS: Should I move this to another thread since I am not a new user anymore?





  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,142 admin
    Hi Ole,

    I would suggest you keep adding to this thread... It is fun to watch as your system evolves over time.

    I cannot tell for sure--But the solar array mounting looks like it may need more "fore/aft" bracing???? I am worried that a wind gust could fold the mount "flat" to the ground (I see some wire bracing, but I don't think it is enough).

    Also, you have a small diameter (gauge) red wire from the battery + bus back up to the main panel (power for a battery monitor or something?).

    It may be the photo, but the wire looks to be in very poor shape (burned/failing insulation?). Ideally, the wire should be checked and possibly placed in a secondary tube of some sort to reduce the chances of a short circuit/damage. Nominally, a fuse should be placed between the battery + bus and the wire (near + bus) to protect against downstream shorts.

    Another option would be to move the battery + (and -) connections into your DC wiring box (connect via fuse to the + bus in the DC panel). That would help protect your small diameter wiring from damage/issues with the battery bank exposure.

    Take care,
    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
13»
Sign In or Register to comment.