Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Again

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body-mayor-mike-bloomberg-and-sandy-make-it-okay-to-mention-solar-and-climate-changeagain.jpg It’s devastating to see my hometown of New York so crippled by Hurricane Sandy. There are so many tragedies from this one event. Not only was there an estimated $50 billion in economic losses, but at least 38 people have died in the city alone. For these and other reasons, New York’s billionaire Mayor Michael Bloomberg finally brought climate chang

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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag

    From a pundit:

    "Denial is just a river in Manhattan."
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag

    although it's my opinion that weather has changed, i can't say this is the result of it. it was just the right set of circumstances that allowed the hurricane to be funneled inland. it is rare and rare doesn't always qualify it as due to climate change. now an 80 degree heat wave in the antarctica is rare, but would qualify under climate change i would think.
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag

    the best benefit to AGW from humankind (if you believe in AGW) is for these windbags to stop breathing, forever... The waters have been severely muddied by these pronunciations centered on Sandy. It was just one massive honkin' big rare storm.

    rant over...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag
    westbranch wrote: »
    the best benefit to AGM from humankind (if you believe in AGM) is for these windbags to stop breathing, forever... The waters have been severely muddied by these pronunciations centered on Sandy. It was just one massive honkin' big rare storm.

    rant over...

    <counter_rant> Actually, the second such storm it two years..... </counter_rant>
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag

    OOPS, typo, shouldn't rant and type... Must proof read more...

    AGW not AGM...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,522 admin
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag

    Here I thought we were going to finally resolve the AGM battery for newbies problem. :p:D

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag

    Hurricanes are strengthened by warmer waters.
    The ocean waters are warming.

    Tidal surges are increased by rising ocean levels.
    The ocean levels are rising.

    It is controversial how much of global warming is caused by human activity, but all reasonable scientists believe that some of the warming is caused by human activity.

    Therefore, human activity has made hurricanes and tidal surges worse. The only controversy is how much worse we've made it.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,522 admin
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag

    No--Not really, storms around this size (Sandy ~4 meters) have been documented before:
    700 yr Sedimentary Record of Intense Hurricane Landfalls
    in Southern New England


    Donnelly J. P., S. S. Bryant, J. Butler, J. Dowling, L. Fan, N. Hausmann, P. Newby,
    B. Shuman, J. Stern, K. Westover and T. Webb III


    GSA Bulletin Volume 113 no. 6, pages 714 –727 (June 2001)

    Abstract Figures Full Text (pdf file, 753K)

    Abstract

    Five intense (category 3 or greater) hurricanes occurring in 1635, 1638, 1815, 1869, and 1938 have made landfall on the New England coast since European settlement. Historical records indicate that four of these hurricanes ( 1635, 1638, 1815, and 1938 ) and hurricane Carol, a strong category 2 storm in 1954, produced significant storm surges (.3 m) in southern Rhode Island. Storm surges of this magnitude can overtop barrier islands, removing sediments from the beach and nearshore environment and depositing overwash fans across back-barrier marshes, lakes, and lagoons. In a regime of rising sea level, accumulation of marsh, lake, or lagoon sediments on top of overwash, deposits will preserve a record of overwash deposition.
    We examined the record of overwash deposition at Succotash salt marsh in East Matunuck, Rhode Island, and tested the correlation with historical records of intense storms. Aerial photographs taken after hurricanes in 1954 and 1938 show overwash fans deposited at the site. Analysis of 14 sediment cores from the back-barrier marsh confirmed the presence of these fans and revealed that four additional large-scale overwash fans were deposited within the marsh sediments.

    The four overwash fans deposited since the early seventeenth century at Succotash Marsh matches the historical record of significant hurricane-induced storm surge. These fans were most likely deposited by hurricanes in 1954, 1938, 1815, and either 1638 or 1635. Radiocarbon dating of two prehistoric overwash fans indicated that these were deposited between A.D. 1295–1407 and 1404–1446 and probably represent intense hurricane strikes. In the past 700 yr, at least seven intense hurricanes struck the southern Rhode Island coast and produced a storm surge that overtopped the barrier at Succotash Marsh.

    Attachment not found.

    It is a combination of weather patterns and the shape of NY harbor that focused wind driven surges plus a near full moon and high tide.

    Not to say that people should not address these issues (barriers to block storm surges, dikes, building homes on 12' stilts, don't rebuild, etc... It has happened in the past and will, more than likely happen in the future. It is a trade-off between losses (human and financial) vs prepping costs/"abandoned lands"/etc.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag

    The same is true in London, eventually they got fed up with the flooding and did the River clam shells.
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag

    Of course there will be talk that Sandy was caused by global warming, but there is no direct causal link. There is a statistical link, in that global warming causes oceanic water temperature to rise, and warm water feeds hurricanes, but no single storm would not have happened were it not for global climate change.
  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag

    Sandy was not especially notable as a hurricane historically except that it was bigger in size than most. As far as intensity and rainfall it was a relative wimp. In the late 70's I was in Japan when a super-typhoon hit, and I think it still holds the all time record for rainfall - something like 42 inches in 72 hours.

    What made it bad was the path it took. But it is far from the worst ever, the 1900 Galveston hurricane is still probably the winner for that. There is still a bunch we don't know about climate change, but whether true or false about it being man caused, ascribing every single notable weather event to it does not increase credibility.
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag
    Windsun wrote: »
    There is still a bunch we don't know about climate change, but whether true or false about it being man caused, ascribing every single notable weather event to it does not increase credibility.
    Agreed. Likewise, the claims that a new record low temperature somewhere is "proof" that global climate change isn't happening doesn't help that side of the argument, either.
  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag
    niel wrote: »
    although it's my opinion that weather has changed, i can't say this is the result of it. it was just the right set of circumstances that allowed the hurricane to be funneled inland. it is rare and rare doesn't always qualify it as due to climate change.

    Agreed, and I think all this talk of climate change "causing" storms is missing the point.

    Climate change does not cause storms. At most it makes them more likely.
    Climate change does not make all storms stronger. At most it makes it more likely that they will be stronger rather than weaker.

    It is a significant issue, because there will be more damage from storms on average, and that is a cost we will pay for warming up the planet. But it is far from a cause-effect relationship.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,005 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Mayor Mike Bloomberg (and Sandy) Make It Okay to Mention Solar and Climate Change…Ag
    ...because there will be more damage from storms on average, ....

    Of course more damage from storms has a direct relationship to more population, placed closer to transitional areas.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.