Bedini Generator as free energy

Not sure how many of you have heard of the Bedini motor/generator, but it's a rather interesting piece of physics that takes the 2nd law of thermal dynamics and just pitches it right square out the window. Well, not completely out the window, but it's able to bend the law enough to actually output more energy than is input. Given that it takes a bit of explaining how this works, let me give you a few links to start with that explain a bit of it.

http://www.rexresearch.com/bedini/bedini.htm
http://johnbedini.net/john34/bedinibearden.html
http://www.icehouse.net/john1/index11.html

Those explain the basics, and some of the numerous prototypes he's invented that further prove the theory. I've actually seen these work, and yes, they will actually generate more energy than they're taking in. The best part is, he's not the only one who's actually built these. Do some research on the Bedini motor and you'll see tons of people who've taken his designs and actually gotten the thing to work. Some of that is because not all of Bedini's ideas are his. He's just the most famous of the inventors. There's plenty of others who've built these or similar devices and got them working.

I'm actually going to put together one of the prototypes this summer to see how well it'd work as a small scale power solution. I know it can produce usable power. My quest would be to find out just how much based on the size of the unit. His 10 monopole motor is supposed to generate enough power to run a house off of it. Apparently they've done it in their shop before during power outages. IE, just fire up the 10 pole, let it run for a bit to charge their bank, and then use that to run everything. :) Anyhow, I just thought I'd toss this out and see what you guys thought about this since it's yet another interesting green technology.

Also, to answer a question I know will come up in time, which is "if this is so great, why isn't it mainstream?" or "Why haven't I heard about it before?" Well, ask yourself this. If we've had such huge advances in other technology, why are we still driving around in vehicles which are using a 100+ year old technology instead of self powered electric cars and other forms of advanced energy? Um, probably because there's more money in selling you a finite resource (oil, coal, etc) than there is in empowering you through free energy. The money people of this world hate "free" anything. It's why we have so many dangerous and expensive, yet outdated technologies today. IE, because they're more profitable than the alternatives. But that can easily diverge into a more political discussion, so I'll end my comments there. ;)
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Comments

  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    The first 5 reasons that come to mind for why this doesn't exist:
    1. The second law of thermodynamics
    2. If it did exist, it would be the greatest invention in the history of the human race. Bigger than the wheel. Even the "money men" would be hard pressed to suppress it. They didn't seem to do so well suppressing solar power.
    3. There are hundreds of thousands of companies that would make a fortune from this machine - many more than the few who would profit from it remaining secret.
    4. If it were that easy to make, why are there only a handful of examples? Forget mainstream adoption, I'd at least expect to see 1000 people with a working machine running their homes.
    5. The second law of thermodynamics
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy
    why are we still driving around in vehicles which are using a 100+ year old technology instead of self powered electric cars and other forms of advanced energy?

    Because the 100+ year-old technology is practical and proven. It also has improved significantly in that 100 years' time; a Model T and a Ford Focus don't resemble each other too much other than the most basic aspects of design.

    One day, inevitably, the newer technology will replace the old. Already major corporations are shifting with their production of hybrid and now all-electric vehicles, but the latter still lacks the ability to be practical for all users.

    If people can't afford "breakthrough" technology or it does not meet the needs of the majority of applications it doesn't get adopted.

    But that's just my opinion based on my learning, experience, and observations over a half a century.
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy
    But that's just my opinion based on my learning, experience, and observations over a half a century.

    This should be added to a list of Cootisms in a sticky! :D:D
  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    The moment someone says a machine puts out more power than it consumes, its impossible to take them seriously after that.
    But if someone out there is willing to build one and show it attempting to do that im interested to see it try.
    I will set up my $3 note printing machine and buy one if it can even reach power in equals power out.
  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy
    .. why are we still driving around in vehicles which are using a 100+ year old technology instead of self powered electric cars..

    Well, the first commercial electric car was in 1891, so one might ask why it never got anywhere after 120+ years.

    This scam and similar ones have been around for decades. The fact that nobody has managed to actually make it work should tell you something
  • Joe_B
    Joe_B Solar Expert Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    Does the room get colder when you run this thing?
    Do some reading on wikipedia about entropy then get back to us.
    John Bedini has been around for over a decade trying to make this junk work with no success.
    The mythbusters already busted this.
    Zero point energy is a myth.
  • TnAndy
    TnAndy Solar Expert Posts: 249 ✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    I'm ready roll off whatever is needed to buy one !
  • Steven Lake
    Steven Lake Solar Expert Posts: 402 ✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    Here's a couple of videos showing the system in operation, since you requested proof:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn0f4VMHliY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttY7yLXZSpo

    Also, I have actually seen one of these work in person. I've also seen it take a completely dead battery (charge battery) and bring it to a full charge without draining the supply battery even one tiny little ioda. Also, if you hunt down the documentary "Energy From The Vacuum", everything about this and how it works is demonstrated and explained in detail in the first two episodes. The later episodes explain some of the conspiracy to kill this project because of all the free energy it produces. I think that if Solar and Wind become mainstream, you'll start seeing the same kind of attacks against it. Also, if you watch the top video, I'd like to see you explain how it's taking in 4v of power and outputting 18v if it's not actually creating power. Now I'm not trying to create a big fuss, but at least give the idea some consideration before outright dismissing it as a hoax. Also, just because something isn't mainstream doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just means it's not mainstream. Take a look at electric cars. They work, even though they're not mainstream.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    First of all, we are not going to let this thread turn into an argument.

    Second, Newtonian physics have yet to be disproven.

    Third, Youtube videos aren't proof of anything except that it is possible for anyone to make videos these days.

    This does not mean the Bedini engine is impossible per se, but rather if it does work it probably works by means other than that given as the explanation. I have seen many "perpetual motion" machines that "work", except that in reality they were drawing energy from a source not readily noticed. Sometimes even the people who built and demonstrate them don't understand where the power is coming from.

    I hope Steven will pursue constructing his own Bedini engine, learn about what is really going on, and report his findings here.
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    Obviously, free energy from magic machines is a religious belief, not based on or supported by science. Time to walk away and hope others don't get sucked in.
  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy
    if you watch the top video, I'd like to see you explain how it's taking in 4v of power and outputting 18v if it's not actually creating power.

    99% of these things are sold to people that do not understand physics. Putting 4 volts into somethinga and getting 18 volts out is NOT PRODUCING POWER. I can do that with a step up transformer, but I have not produced any power. VOLTAGE IS NOT POWER.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    Power = Voltage * Current (DC Only)

    This is just a Motor/Generator... We have used these for years--DC Arc Welders, AC to DC converters, Rotary Converters (60 Hz to 50 Hz), etc... I am not sure that anyone makes AC Motor-Generators anymore. It is much cheaper and more efficient to do it with electronics these days.

    At best, these home made things, as built, are 50% efficient--and probably a lot less.

    Note that everyone is showing voltage or current--but never both at the same time (I*V on input and I*V on output).

    If they showed 1 amp * 4 volts (4 watts) going in and 0.5 amps * 20 volts (10 watts) going out... Then they would have something.

    However, if this is using coils and such--The math can get a lot more complex. Power Factor becomes important. It is very easy to fudge the Power equation if you drop the third term:

    Power = Volts * Current * Power Factor = Volts * Current * Cosine (current wrt voltage)

    Power Factor/Cosine varies between 0.0 to 1.0 .... For AC motors and inductive loads, PF of ~0.66 is not uncommon. So it is
    "easy" to create something that looks like "over unity". PF meters are more expensive and complex to use. But are required if somebody is going to convince people that they have something that can output more energy than it uses.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    If anyone is thinking a higher voltage out compared to the input voltage. I ask you to re read Windsuns statement again and again until you understand it.
    All step up transformers for obvious reasons produce higher output voltage than the input voltage. BUT THE CURRENT DECREASES. There is no gain.
    The reverse for step down transformers. 120v 1amp input will give in theory 12v and 10a output. there is no loss because the output voltage is 10% of the input voltage.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    Driving across Montana today, amidst the wind snow, watching the dash mounted MPG gauge, we discussed the regenerative capacity of the Prius for example. If you use X amount of energy going up the mountain pass, can you recapture more energy going down than you spent driving up. the obvious answer is no, but the nuanced answer is more complicated. For example if the drive mechanism is less efficient that the regen system, you could conceivably put more back in than you too out. but the reality is that you can't start at the bottom of the pass, drive to the top, and drive back and actually gain total energy. It's that pesky thermo dynamics thing again.

    This is the way Susan and I entertain ourselves over the thousands of miles when we commute coast to coast a couple of times a year!

    Tony
  • nsaspook
    nsaspook Solar Expert Posts: 396 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    1920-10-Popular-Science-Norman-Rockwell-cover-Perpetual-Motion-227x300.jpg
  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    Some thoughts about the feasibility of free energy;

    There are things about our world of which we are ignorant today that will become common knowledge in the near future. If we are anything like our predecessors we will continue to gain new understandings of natural resources and phenomena which will advance our capabilities.

    Check out the Wikipedia Timeline of scientific discoveries:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_scientific_discoveries-

    -The first known automobile was built around 1672. It was a toy which belonged to the Chinese Emperor and few had seen it. How believable would second and third hand stories have been 300 years ago? It took hundreds of years of experimenting with fuels and structural design with good ideas but hundreds of years of failure to make a worthwhile conveyance.

    Do we know all there is to know about electromagnetism? (since 1807)

    I don't believe that our available technology and equipment fully utilizes all natural phenomena to run as efficiently as possible. Nor do I believe that we have already tapped into all existing natural fields of energy.

    Unfortunately, there is no doubt there is a culture of suppression of technologies which threaten economic interests. The most obvious example may be how so many innovations are kept secret or inaccessible to protect intellectual ownership.

    Most fascinating to me is the research at the Large Hedron Collider regarding Higgs boson particles.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson#Alternative_mechanisms_for_electroweak_symmetry_breaking
    This may turn out to be a new and profound understanding or it could be entirely disproved. It's possible it could provide a new transducer or an electromechanical advantage which can be used with existing technologies.

    Be curious.
    Keep asking questions.
    Experiment when you get the chance.
    Don't just take someone else's word for it.
    Test a crazy idea.
    (especially if someone tells you it can't be done)

    Alex Aragon
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    More efficiencies is one thing, alternative fuel is another thing,, perpetual motion is,,,not possible in this universe!

    Tony
  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy
    Unfortunately, there is no doubt there is a culture of suppression of technologies which threaten economic interests. The most obvious example may be how so many innovations are kept secret or inaccessible to protect intellectual ownership.
    Do you have any actual examples of that?
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    If more people paid attention in science class they wouldn't believe in nonsense.
    Back in the day when things we now take for granted would be a wonder, very few people had much education of any sort. The majority of them couldn't read or write, much less spell or construct a proper sentence. True understanding of basic physics was largely absent, and apparently still is. :roll:

    As for conspiracies suppressing technology ... have you ever heard that once two people share a secret it is no longer a secret? Do you really think you can get a group of people that is large enough to control any amount of vital information to keep their mouths shut? If you do, you haven't been paying attention to the world.

    Or science class.;)
  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy
    Windsun wrote: »
    Do you have any actual examples of that?


    Have you ever been asked to sign a nondisclosure agreement so you can participate in Beta testing?

    Have you ever heard about the shenaniagans surrounding the NiMH battery for the EV1?

    This video has interviews with the inventor expressing his disappointment of how things were handled after he sold controlling share to GM. GM did not initially use the NiMH and instead used a inferior battery pack. After the NiMH was implemented and found to be a success GM sold controlling interest to Chevron-Texaco. Why would they buy it and then not produce it?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq2D_Ts5B5g

    The video also gets into some debatable conspiracy theories regarding oil and auto companies protecting their interests.
    If you want to dismiss conspiracy theories because you simply believe business interests would never do such a thing note that it is documented that GM and other companies were convicted in the "National Lines Conspiracy" of buying control of and then dismantling streetcar and electric train services in 45 US cities.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy

    I can't claim any examples of technological suppression regarding free energy but I also cannot dismiss the possibility.

    I'm also not claiming that we will find a way to produce something from nothing, but imagine if you had never heard of photovoltaics, or photons for that matter, and someone told you they could get electricity from the sun.

    It's just foolish to think that we have discovered it all. Can you really believe that we are at the zenith of our understanding?

    One thing that comes to mind for me is how the Earth has a dynamic magnetic field around it which we can actually measure and observe yet we do not harvest any energy from it even though it actually can move things in our world. Sure the force which turns a compass needle is minute but who has ever been knocked over by a photon?
  • nsaspook
    nsaspook Solar Expert Posts: 396 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    You only get older, time only goes forward and there is no free lunch. What (some) people seem to forget/ignore with energy is that it's not "work". "work" is produced when energy moves from one level to the next up or down. There is a bit of truth that energy is everywhere but it's useless because it requires more energy than that background energy to convert it to "work".
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    Being able to harvest energy that is there, such as from the Earth's magnetic field, is not the same as creating energy out of thin air. You cannot put 'X' Watts in and get '1.5X' Watts out. Absolutely every application that harvests, stores, converts, or uses energy to do work has losses. No matter what type of energy is involved. There is absolutely no proof anywhere that this is not so, and an abundance of evidence that says it is.

    Remember; energy, like matter, is never created or destroyed. It just changes state. It may exist as potential energy or kinetic energy or heat energy or light energy, but it has to be there in order for us to make use of it. How efficiently we gather and use it is the only thing we can improve on.
  • Joe_B
    Joe_B Solar Expert Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

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  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy
    Being able to harvest energy that is there, such as from the Earth's magnetic field, is not the same as creating energy out of thin air..

    My point is that there are still natural phenomena which most of us currently see as "thin air".

    There are still things which are not widely understood which are being actively studied and discovered. Unfortunately a lot of research which is done with private funding is protected from the public domain. With many technologies the only spokespersons who are openly sharing information are academics in public forums or people who are easy to dismiss as activist nut-jobs because they want to make it available to the public domain.

    How strong is our understanding of, or ability to make use of:
    -The Coriolis effect
    -Toroidial vortices
    -Spintronics (a fairly new study of a quantum variable which affects all matter)
    -global and particle magnetic fields

    All of these phenomena are present in our lives whether we are utilizing them or not. Look into them and then try to say we have all of the answers.

    Even when everyone believed it to be so, the Earth was not flat.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    I never said we have all the answers. Certainly I've never said I have all the answers.

    But neither do I disregard the answers we do have in favour of pipe dreams.

    Gone are the days when someone could putter in their workshop and accidentally stumble upon the next big breakthrough in any field. Knowledge is built on knowledge. The understanding of the very things you just mentioned can only be had with a great deal of background learning. Including physics.

    Newton's Laws quite often are the bucket of cold water dashed on daydreamers.

    Or as Josh Billings said: "The problem ain't the folks that don't know anything; it's the ones what know so many things that ain't so!"
  • Polaraco
    Polaraco Solar Expert Posts: 102 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy
    stephendv wrote: »
    The first 5 reasons that come to mind for why this doesn't exist:
    1. The second law of thermodynamics
    2. If it did exist, it would be the greatest invention in the history of the human race. Bigger than the wheel. Even the "money men" would be hard pressed to suppress it. They didn't seem to do so well suppressing solar power.
    3. There are hundreds of thousands of companies that would make a fortune from this machine - many more than the few who would profit from it remaining secret.
    4. If it were that easy to make, why are there only a handful of examples? Forget mainstream adoption, I'd at least expect to see 1000 people with a working machine running their homes.
    5. The second law of thermodynamics

    Big Biz is trying to suppress Solar and wind because it doesn't sell oil or gas. The strange thing is the government has been supporting it, sort of, but most of the panels and related devices are made off shore. There are very few who have made a real good panel in the US. There's no funding for us unless you know someone or made a large contribution to some load in DC. Once again Asia is ahead of us in this feild. Their governments put money into their companies so they can take our money.

    Thank you Washington. . . Again
  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    “Everything that can be invented has been invented.”

    Attributed to Charles H. Duell, the Commissioner at U.S. Office of Patents in 1889
    :roll:
  • Polaraco
    Polaraco Solar Expert Posts: 102 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy
    john p wrote: »
    If anyone is thinking a higher voltage out compared to the input voltage. I ask you to re read Windsuns statement again and again until you understand it.
    All step up transformers for obvious reasons produce higher output voltage than the input voltage. BUT THE CURRENT DECREASES. There is no gain.
    The reverse for step down transformers. 120v 1amp input will give in theory 12v and 10a output. there is no loss because the output voltage is 10% of the input voltage.

    A Watt is a Watt or a Watt and a Watt. Ohms law covers what you said. Transformers are inefficient. Even electronic regulators are inefficient. You loose a Minimum of 10% stepping up or down.
  • Polaraco
    Polaraco Solar Expert Posts: 102 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy


    Or as Josh Billings said: "The problem ain't the folks that don't know anything; it's the ones what know so many things that ain't so!"

    EXCELLENT!
    Boy! That is the truth for sure. And there's plenty of the "Aint so's" out there. LOL
  • Polaraco
    Polaraco Solar Expert Posts: 102 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Bedini Generator as free energy

    As far as I know, the only free, perpetual energy we can get is GeoThermal.

    I often wondered if I could drill a 6" hole in my yard 3 miles deep and how much it would cost. I could power the whole town!

    But once again, it's expensive and doesn't sell oil or gas. Our economy seems to be based on that now, where it was automotive years ago
This discussion has been closed.