Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

SolaRAC
SolaRAC Solar Expert Posts: 52 ✭✭✭✭
Hi guys.. another post on DIY panels.

What do you think out this method; it's a vacuum/heat sealed Glass > EVA > Cells < EVA < TPE sandwich. Look how professional the final product looks at 2:55 - 3:41.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD5SYrubR_E

I've been watching DIY methods all day.. this is the best I've seen thus far!
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Comments

  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    You can get premade solar panels with out frames for 58 cents a watt.

    You can get bankrupt evergreen solar panels for 78 cents a watt with frames in the next few weeks.

    You can follow the advice of that you tube video and it will cost you around $2 a watt if you figure your labor is worth minimum wage.

    Which one sounds more attractive to you?

    The only economical use for DIY solar is for small panels less than 100w.

    Good luck.
  • SolaRAC
    SolaRAC Solar Expert Posts: 52 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?
    You can get premade solar panels with out frames for 58 cents a watt.

    You can get bankrupt evergreen solar panels for 78 cents a watt with frames in the next few weeks.

    You can follow the advice of that you tube video and it will cost you around $2 a watt if you figure your labor is worth minimum wage.

    Which one sounds more attractive to you?

    The only economical use for DIY solar is for small panels less than 100w.

    Good luck.

    Great! I'm gonna go DIY; Im not making anything beyond 100w.


    Thanks for the input :)
  • drees
    drees Solar Expert Posts: 482 ✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    The point is:

    You can DIY a 100W panel yourself for $2/watt.

    Or you can buy a commercial quality 100W panel w/frame and warranty and have it delivered to your door for $2/watt. And you can go even cheaper if you get frameless panels (laminates).

    Unless you're DIY just for the sake of DIY - commercial panels are cheap enough now to not even give DIY panels a second though.
  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    The vacuum sealing is right idea but not sure how good a job will result using a vacuum cleaner and a hot air gun. If he is getting away with running interconnects across the back of cells without creating shorts then vacuum is probably not enought. A peel test on laminate to glass bond would tell. It should almost tear the laminate to separate it from glass. There needs to be no trapped air.

    Bad news on wiring. The panel has 35 cells in series with no bypass diodes. With cells you buy in aftermarket this is receipe for trouble unless cells are sorted for shunt resistance quality. Should have put in at least two bypass diodes.
    http://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/modules/hot-spot-heating
    http://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/modules/bypass-diodes

    Won't be getting 20v @ 4.8 amps from 35 series connected cells, unless panels are kept very cold.
  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    "Great! I'm gonna go DIY; Im not making anything beyond 100w."

    have fun making your one 100W panel, because once you make 2, then you could of bought a 200w panel for a more economical price.

    And like many construction activities the first one you make is typically bad, takes some practice to get it perfect. so in essence you are wasting your time.
  • SolaRAC
    SolaRAC Solar Expert Posts: 52 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    I think you guys are missing the point here..

    I'm in this to learn, this isn't a large scale project where I'm making alot of panels. They say experiance is the best teacher; I'm getting first class education :D
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,730 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    Some good advice here! If you have the time then do it! You might discover what 60 years of Space & Terrestrial research and developement has not.....
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    Sometimes a cost-to-benefit analysis isn't about the dollars. If you will get a benefit from doing it (fun, education), go for it. Call it your hobby!
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    Nobody is trying to stop you from learning... But the devil is in the details.

    Here is a good series on Do It Yourself solar panel construction:

    http://fieldlines.com/board/index.ph...,144982.0.html
    http://fieldlines.com/board/index.ph...,144995.0.html
    http://fieldlines.com/board/index.ph...,145004.0.html

    Another reason we tend to recommend against DIY solar panels is that most people use plastic (and sometimes wood) to make the arrays--Which is a serious fire hazard too (and even glass panels can shatter from the heat and short too):

    Panel Fire Question

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SolaRAC
    SolaRAC Solar Expert Posts: 52 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    Thanks for the info guys. I guess if there is anything I learned here is that it's a bad idea to post anything regarding DIY Solar Panel Systems... Some people seem to get fired up with this topic. 10 Replies later and no one has answered the initial question :blush:

    I've ordered 40 cells and I'm gonna play with them. I will refrain from posting any further on this subject.
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    Most of us have been biting our tongues. This is not really a DIY site. Almost all of those, here, who have been at Solar for a while, do not build our own modules. Just our collective stupidity, I guess.

    This is a matter of perspective. Am not trying to run you off. But, perhaps those who are selling these fine individual cells, have a great site that shows exactly what they expect you to do with the cells to make good modules.

    This may well be a great learning experience for you. This may not be the absolute best place to get DIY info, as you may have seen from this thread ... You did ask, "what do you think?". And some posters did tell you what they thought. Not to be TOO Snarky, Snarky Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • SolaRAC
    SolaRAC Solar Expert Posts: 52 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?
    Vic wrote: »
    You did ask, "what do you think?". And some posters did tell you what they thought. Not to be TOO Snarky, Snarky Vic

    No one said what they thought about the method.. only what they think about DIY in general. :/
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?
    SolaRAC wrote: »
    Hi guys.. another post on DIY panels.

    What do you think out this method; it's a vacuum/heat sealed Glass > EVA > Cells < EVA < TPE sandwich. Look how professional the final product looks at 2:55 - 3:41.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD5SYrubR_E

    I've been watching DIY methods all day.. this is the best I've seen thus far!


    I prefer the fieldlines method:
    http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,144982.0.html
    as long as you are going to bother with the expensive laminates....
    Otherwise, it's not going to be water vapor proof.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?
    SolaRAC wrote: »
    No one said what they thought about the method.. only what they think about DIY in general. :/

    RCinFLA gave quite an expert evaluation in post #5, I thought. Can't improve on it.
  • bumper
    bumper Registered Users Posts: 14
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    What
    I find here is guys which have no idea of the satisfaction of doing something themselves other than purchasing panels, paying someone to set them up then they are experts,lol, he knows he could have done what you guys did but he wanted a hands on project he could look back and say " I made those" ,very few of you will ever know the feeling sorry to say.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    Some things are not worth DIY, some are. I had to make my own battery lugs for M20 terminals (7/8" thru hole), http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug but I have no desire for making a panel from bare cells. I also work in electronics, and have handled more wafers, die and raw ingots than most folks do. If you want to play with a dozen bare cells, tab wire, glass and sealer, go right ahead, learn how the gear gets wired up, and have the fun of making it. But none of us are going to promise you that it will work for more than 90 seconds. Too many things can go wrong in the process, mostly from floor sweepings quality bare cells.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • bumper
    bumper Registered Users Posts: 14
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?
    mike90045 wrote: »
    Some things are not worth DIY, some are. I had to make my own battery lugs for M20 terminals (7/8" thru hole), http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug but I have no desire for making a panel from bare cells. I also work in electronics, and have handled more wafers, die and raw ingots than most folks do. If you want to play with a dozen bare cells, tab wire, glass and sealer, go right ahead, learn how the gear gets wired up, and have the fun of making it. But none of us are going to promise you that it will work for more than 90 seconds. Too many things can go wrong in the process, mostly from floor sweepings quality bare cells.
    That is a fantastic
    battery bank, looks like you have the right idea
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?
    bumper wrote: »
    That is a fantastic battery bank, looks like you have the right idea
    I'm trying a Nickel- Iron battery, I'll have it completly hooked up at Thanksgiving. 42 cells @ 1.2V each. I'm pushing my charger and inverter, it's got a wider voltage swing than Pb/So4 batteries.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    You found somebody still making them?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?
    BB. wrote: »
    You found somebody still making them? -Bill

    Chi-Coms. Almost had me a seizure, sending a boatload of $$ to them. There's a couple importers in the states, I went with the one in Colorado. That, or buy refurbished Exide's from the 60's & 70's.
    http://tinyurl.com/LMR-NiFe (not all the comments are attached)
    I'll be fireing them up by Thanksgiving.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,730 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    Were they cheaper than these?
    http://ironedison.com/
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    about the same $. They were another vendor I looked at, I chose the one closest to me. Post sales service may be different though, hard to compare before it's needed. beutilityfree.com/Electric/Ni-Fe appeared to have been in business longer too.
    Had I'd know in advance, what was involved in filling and chargeing the monsters I got, I would have also ordered that service done in advance. Would have saved me 4 days of work. Each cell would have been a bit heavier to pull out of crates, but heck, 65#, 80# what's the difference when my firends kid is pulling them out !
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • SolaRAC
    SolaRAC Solar Expert Posts: 52 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?
    bumper wrote: »
    What
    I find here is guys which have no idea of the satisfaction of doing something themselves other than purchasing panels, paying someone to set them up then they are experts,lol, he knows he could have done what you guys did but he wanted a hands on project he could look back and say " I made those" ,very few of you will ever know the feeling sorry to say.

    Finally someone represents my view :)
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    DIY panels all you like, boys. You'll learn a lot, I hope.
    You'll learn it's not as cheap and easy as some would have you believe.
    You'll learn it's totally impractical for any sizable amount of PV such as might be used to power a small cabin.
    You'll learn a few new ways to curse.
    And maybe you'll learn that the people here are giving you good advice and information and you shouldn't make snarky remarks about their expertise.

    Consider that a warning about attitude.
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?
    SolaRAC wrote: »
    Finally someone represents my view :)

    Obviously you didn't read what some of us wrote. In support of you.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,730 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?
    DIY panels all you like, boys. You'll learn a lot, I hope.
    You'll learn it's not as cheap and easy as some would have you believe.
    You'll learn it's totally impractical for any sizable amount of PV such as might be used to power a small cabin.
    You'll learn a few new ways to curse.
    And maybe you'll learn that the people here are giving you good advice and information and you shouldn't make snarky remarks about their expertise.

    Consider that a warning about attitude.

    Nice ! I was wondering where ground was.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    Hi about DIY, there are those that can afford the poetry, and can not perform the task, there is electric glue and epoxies for(like me). that have a budget and can not even afford the real damn good deals that are out there. I say Buy them and make them . If you can do both, and put em side by side off your bill.!
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?
    Thomas wrote: »
    Hi about DIY, there are those that can afford the poetry, and can not perform the task, there is electric glue and epoxies for(like me). that have a budget and can not even afford the real damn good deals that are out there. I say Buy them and make them . If you can do both, and put em side by side off your bill.!

    Thomas, did you bother to read the post by one of this forms many real experts, Cariboocoot, time stamped November 3rd, 2011, 16:06 PDT, located a couple of posts down? If you actually did, and have decided to ignore his honest, truthful, educated and caring input, then perhaps you'd be happier on one of the other forms, forms that for very good reason, we no longer visit. :confused:
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?
    SolaRAC wrote: »
    Finally someone represents my view :)

    I think I understand where you are coming from. I understand doing something for the joy of doing it and the sense of accomplishment that comes from building something that works without regard to economics.

    Among other things, I am a musician who plays original music. I have spent significant $$ over the years on the gear to do it and it doesn't make much money for me - beer and tips, usually. Yes, I could buy songs to listen to on iTunes for $0.99 each, but where's the fun in that?

    BTW, it sort of rankles whenever someone refers to music as my "hobby". I have been a musician longer than I have been just about anything else, and I am very serious about it. Success does not have to be defined in monetary terms.

    Anyway, have fun with your project, just don't depend on it for life support and don't spend too much money on it. Don't quit yer day job. ;)
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Interesting DIY Method | What do you think?

    Have anyone considered making DIY solar panel using pop cans? It heats air directly and has high efficiency. It is cheap DIY project (under $200) and has significant energy gain. Commercial version is close to $3000, but with little effort, you can make almost same thing.
    I made it and it works great for me!!!

    M.

    here is what it looks like, mounted in my house...file.php?id=100&t=1