solar space heat

krisman
krisman Solar Expert Posts: 57 ✭✭✭✭
in Energy Use & Conservation #1
What would be the best space heater, this solar heater

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200328801_200328801

or the delonghi oil filled trn0812t

http://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-TRN0812T-Portable-Oil-Filled-Programmable/dp/B000G1CXZI

please help, my furnace has shot its wad.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: solar space heat

    delonghi wins at nighttime when it's cold, or daytime when it's cloudy.

    They are 2 different heaters, for different jobs. The solar one will reduce your conventional heat usage for several hours a day.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: solar space heat

    Get a new furnace. It is stated on Northern tool that the solar is suplimental heat heat source to your furnace but don,t replace it. I have a couple of them oil space heaters in case my gaswell shuts off. So far it hasn,t. I used them after I finished out my propane before I got the gas line into my house. They use a lot of electric and will do in a pinch to keep your pipes from freezing. I could get my 1644 square ft. home to high 50.s to low 60, in march weather when there was still snow on the ground. Depending on your circumstances you might look into Geo Thermal furnace. My daughter has it with a 2400 sq ft home and thier highest electric bill was a little over $300. The family waste a lot of power, (To My Estimation).
    S:Dlarvic
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  • krisman
    krisman Solar Expert Posts: 57 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: solar space heat

    so has anyone ever built a homemade solar space heater like the ones on youtube and builditsolar? its supposed to raise the indoor temp 10 degrees or more. if i was to build this for a couple of rooms, and then buy a delonghi for the nights. would that work?
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: solar space heat
    krisman wrote: »
    so has anyone ever built a homemade solar space heater like the ones on youtube and builditsolar? its supposed to raise the indoor temp 10 degrees or more. if i was to build this for a couple of rooms, and then buy a delonghi for the nights. would that work?

    Not as a replacement for a household furnace. What you will spend in electric, for the delonghi for 16 hours of the day, you really need to replace the main furnace.
    Is it really dead? Did the timer in the thermostat shut off with a "Change Filter" message? blocked vent or kinked gas flex connector ? Many things will stop a furnace, but only a few, like a cracked or split heat-ex that leaks CO into the house, really take it out of service.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • krisman
    krisman Solar Expert Posts: 57 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: solar space heat

    well the furnace, when kicked on, will start the fan to clear out the old gas i guess. then a few moments later, you can hear the actual ignitor igniting the flame. since the first of the season, the fan has kicked on, then after 5-10 min utes the ignitor kicks in. so finally the fan kicks on but the ignitor never does ignite. im guessing its probably an ignitor but i am just so tired of having a furnace with all that wiring inside, it is frightening. im still interested in making the solar window heater to help with the furnace, but would you not have to crack the window open a little bit to get the lip of the heater inside? and would that not be very dangerous with the window not being able to lock? anyone could just break in or something.
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  • LucMan
    LucMan Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: solar space heat
    krisman wrote: »
    well the furnace, when kicked on, will start the fan to clear out the old gas i guess. then a few moments later, you can hear the actual ignitor igniting the flame. since the first of the season, the fan has kicked on, then after 5-10 min utes the ignitor kicks in. so finally the fan kicks on but the ignitor never does ignite.

    Is your furnace a 90+ eff. furnace with PVC piping? If it is check your PVC inlet to the furnace, wasp nests blocking the inlet are the biggest problem, they get sucked down during the heating season to the end of the pipe.
    If not pull the hot surface igniter and see if there are any hairline cracks in it. If cracked replace it, they only last a few years. I keep about 5 different kind on my truck.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: solar space heat

    And the hot surface igniters are as sensitive as a halogen bulb's quartz glass, you can't get any fingerprints on them, or it will etch and crack at that point.

    For $20 you can heat a house for 12 hours on electricity, or 2 days on gas, so be careful when using the Super Efficient Warms the Whole House Amish Mantel Heater made by folks with beards (according to the ads).
    Heat Surge is another name for "Surprise in the Electric Bill"
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: solar space heat

    imo, get a repairman there to see what's going on. odds are he'll get it going for way far cheaper than a new furnace. while he's there you can discuss your concerns of the old furnace and what may be good to shoot for in the future to possibly replace it. new furnaces are now very efficient and you could possibly throw in the possibilities of geothermal, solar, or heat pumps and many of these items i think can get you a tax break on.
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #10
    Re: solar space heat

    The Northern Equipment thing is horribly overpriced!

    Look for posts by mountain - he built a solar air heater that looks good and details are on the site here. Helps for daytime hours when the sun is shining at least.

    The heater on Amazon is just another electric heater with a COP of 1 - same as old fashioned electric baseboard heating.
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  • krisman
    krisman Solar Expert Posts: 57 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: solar space heat

    so if i was to make something to sit inside the window. say a piece of plexiglass with a sheet of aluminum, with a hole cut in top to vent the hot air. would that be worthwhile? or just dangerous?
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #12
    Re: solar space heat

    There is no advantage to placing, for example, a black piece of metal behind a window to capture heat. When the light and energy from the sun shines through the window into the home--the furniture, walls, carpet, etc. all absorb the heat and will heat up the room.

    And, it may actually cause a bit more heat loss out the window during the sunny day (warm air/metal is hotter than room, so more heat will be pushed back out through the window.

    I really like double pane vinyl windows. I replaced the 70-80 year old single pane windows in my home and it really cut down on heat loss and noise from the outside. But, it also cut heat gain too (Low E glass).

    My homes used to be way too hot in the summer--now (with added wall insulation) I have to use a bit more heat in the spring/fall because the home does not heat up as fast/much (not very much heat at all--probably just a few dollars a month in spring/fall). Rarely does it get like an oven anymore.

    You might look at the Home Power Magazine. They have lots of information and ideas on reducing heating/cooling needs for a home.

    If you need a lot of heat for your home--You are going to need to do a lot more. Also, remember that lots of heat is also lost through your windows... Heavy drapes, insulating foam, etc. can help too when the sun is not out.

    Window Curtains

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • krisman
    krisman Solar Expert Posts: 57 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: solar space heat

    so if i had a 70 watt panel to combine with my 50 watt, that still wouldnt be enough to justify getting it, right?

    a solar water heater is the best return for the money? i have a gas water heater but i would like to reduce the dependency on gas. this wouldnt really save me much but would help reduce gas use right?
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #14
    Re: solar space heat

    Off grid solar electric power costs around $1-$2+ per kWhr--or ~10x what most people pay for utility power.

    If you want to play "what if" using various fuel/energy sources... Here is a handy calculator that lets you see the cost differences in common units (instead of trying to figure out $/kWhr, $/gallon, $/ton, $/Therm, etc.).

    In terms of 50-70 watts worth of solar electric power--That is on the order of what would be needed to run circulating pumps/fans to move the hot air around. Not near enough raw power to do any sort of useful space heating/cooking/etc. That much solar panel would be the equivalent of running a 100 Watt lamp for an hour or so a day... If that is enough heat for your needs--then perhaps it is worth the project to you.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #15
    Re: solar space heat

    The dedicated heat pump style hot water heaters are the most economical at todays electric costs over a 13 year life - no power cost escalation considered. The initial cost of the solar thermal panels are too high plus you still need electric backup in the winter.

    The heaters provide 60 deg C water with a COP of 2.1 or there about. GE makes one so a web search allows you to see what they offer.
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  • RandomJoe
    RandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: solar space heat
    krisman wrote: »
    since the first of the season, the fan has kicked on, then after 5-10 min utes the ignitor kicks in. so finally the fan kicks on but the ignitor never does ignite. im guessing its probably an ignitor but i am just so tired of having a furnace with all that wiring inside, it is frightening.

    Didn't read this thread until today... My furnace was acting this way when I first moved into the house. When I checked it out, the reason it was failing is the pressure switch that confirms the combustion blower (the fan you hear running) is actually on quit "making". In my case, it wasn't even a bad switch - it was that the drain line for the exhaust vent had clogged, so water was sitting in the blower housing (I could hear it "paddling water" when it started). So all I had to do was pull off the line, blow it out, and good to go.

    If your furnace is taking 5-10 minutes after the blower starts to ignite, I'd say the pressure switch is "fluttering" (makes, then opens, then makes...) or now just not making at all. Could simply be a bad switch, or something blocking the airflow (my plugged drain line, BB's wasp nest...). Not an expensive fix at all.
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