Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

FL SUN · July 2009

Am looking to put together a small off grid solar set-up for a working show and tell. I found this inverter/charger by Samlex or Mean Well and thought it would work for my application. It is an all in one charger, inverter, charge controller, UPS (if desired) and is designed specifically for solar application.

The link shows the specs for 12 and 24 volt dc, but I've located a 48 volt version that has reduced the dc current to less than 40 amps.

Does anyone here have any first hand knowledge of this product before I purchase it and regret it?

http://www.samlexamerica.com/customer_support/pdf/SlickSheets/TN-1500_SlickSheet.pdf

John

BB. · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

NAWS sells Samlex--and what little I have read seems to indicate that they are good products.

About all I know.

-Bill

FL SUN · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

Thanks Bill for the response.

I was just curious about the all in one unit or separate components (inverter, charge controller, shore power charger, etc.) being superior to the other. I think it's a personal preference.

I just like the packaged 'invercharger' as it eliminates extra wiring and whatnot, although this does not have mppt for the dc module input. The price is good at around $850.00 for the whole thing.

BB. · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

There is something to be said for an All-In-One unit... Basically becomes a UPS with external battery.

If the unit has everything you need and is close in price to the piece part system--and a good reputation/quality--They are pretty nice.

The downside, is that if something breaks, the whole unit must be repaired / replaced.

-Bill

dwh · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

Only thing I saw that I didn't much care for was that while it would charge at 30a on the solar charger, the AC charger only does 5.5a.

Not that it matters for a portable demo system.

FL SUN · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

dwh wrote: »

Only thing I saw that I didn't much care for was that while it would charge at 30a on the solar charger, the AC charger only does 5.5a.

Not that it matters for a portable demo system.

Good catch on the charging spec. The 48 volt version charges 58 volts dc @ 1.35 amps which makes all the inverchargers in this line charge @ only 80 watts from mains power. It looks like the inverter switches internally when dc voltage drops below critical threshold, and allows mains to flow through to the load until dc voltage is satisfied either by solar or mains trickle charge.

If the objective is to charge very minimally through mains power, and rely on solar pv for charging, this would be the way to go. This allows critical AC loads to use either the preferred solar or mains power when RE power is not available.

Am I right on this thinking?

RCinFLA · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

Another consideration is if the neutral is groundable if you intend on wiring into existing house electrical wiring. I don't see anything in spec sheet. I would guess it is not groundable neutral based on size and weight.

Also light load current drain is probably 35-50 watts since they are spec'g a 'standby' of 18 watts.

dwh · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

FL SUN wrote: »

Good catch on the charging spec. The 48 volt version charges 58 volts dc @ 1.35 amps which makes all the inverchargers in this line charge @ only 80 watts from mains power. It looks like the inverter switches internally when dc voltage drops below critical threshold, and allows mains to flow through to the load until dc voltage is satisfied either by solar or mains trickle charge.

If the objective is to charge very minimally through mains power, and rely on solar pv for charging, this would be the way to go. This allows critical AC loads to use either the preferred solar or mains power when RE power is not available.

Am I right on this thinking?

Aye, seems logical that they might design it that way. I mean it's a lowbuck TSW with a decent amount of features, and it's already setup for converting DC - adding a big AC charger would add a fair bit to the price.

mikeo · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

Does anyone here have any first hand knowledge of this product before I purchase it and regret it?

I have no experience with this inverter but it does look interesting for a small off grid controller. In reading the specs the charge controllers maximum current is rated at 30 amps but its operational rate is 25 amps. This would support about 400 watts worth of panels if I am figuring this right for the 12 volt system. Add to the inverter a pair of L16 batteries (375 amp hours) and 2 or 3 solar panels in parallel (400 watts worth) plus some small amount of wiring and you would have a complete system. This should be sufficient to run a small energy star refrigerator, a few compact florescent lights and a small 12 volt DC water pump in a cabin. Oh yes, add a generator for those weeks of cloudy weather to keep the batteries up.
Inverter/charger $900
Batteries $900
PV panels $1200
wiring estimate $100
Honda EU1000I $750
Total $3850

Does all of this sound correct?

dwh · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

mikeo wrote: »

I have no experience with this inverter but it does look interesting for a small off grid controller. In reading the specs the charge controllers maximum current is rated at 30 amps but its operational rate is 25 amps. This would support about 400 watts worth of panels if I am figuring this right for the 12 volt system. Add to the inverter a pair of L16 batteries (375 amp hours) and 2 or 3 solar panels in parallel (400 watts worth) plus some small amount of wiring and you would have a complete system. This should be sufficient to run a small energy star refrigerator, a few compact florescent lights and a small 12 volt DC water pump in a cabin. Oh yes, add a generator for those weeks of cloudy weather to keep the batteries up.
Inverter/charger $900
Batteries $900
PV panels $1200
wiring estimate $100
Honda EU1000I $750
Total $3850

Does all of this sound correct?

Yes, but at the 5.5a rate, if you have to use the gen to recharge the batteries, it's going to take a while. And the EU1000i only puts out 8.3a on the DC output.

So I think you'd probably need to add an AC powered charger to run off the gen. Something like this - $130 (charger) +$30 (IQ4 module) :

http://store.solar-electric.com/dls-30.html

Not strictly *required*, but I'd want it.

FL SUN · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

RCinFLA wrote: »

Another consideration is if the neutral is groundable if you intend on wiring into existing house electrical wiring. I don't see anything in spec sheet. I would guess it is not groundable neutral based on size and weight.

That I don't know.

I would suspect since the inverter is designed to be plugged into house wiring, that the neutral and grounding conductors are wired straight through to the output receptacle. Since your neutral and ground are bonded in your main panel (in modern wiring), the neutral and ground would essentially have the same continuity on your inverter output.

FL SUN · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

mikeo wrote: »

I have no experience with this inverter but it does look interesting for a small off grid controller. In reading the specs the charge controllers maximum current is rated at 30 amps but its operational rate is 25 amps. This would support about 400 watts worth of panels if I am figuring this right for the 12 volt system. Add to the inverter a pair of L16 batteries (375 amp hours) and 2 or 3 solar panels in parallel (400 watts worth) plus some small amount of wiring and you would have a complete system. This should be sufficient to run a small energy star refrigerator, a few compact florescent lights and a small 12 volt DC water pump in a cabin.

Although anything can be done, I don't know if this inverter is designed for off-grid use as the charger portion doesn't put out the amps for serious charging. It has a switching relay that allows house power to flow to the AC load until the dc bank is charged by solar. The trickle charge supplied by house mains (or generator) would take too long on a large 400Ah bank.

If you have to use a separate charger like the one dwh suggested, you'd probably do best to go with separate BOS components like you have in your signature for an off grid set-up.

You'd also get the most out of this inverter when going with 48 volts dc. Max Voc dc input is spec'd @ 75 @ 30 amps. That could be around 1.8 kw of panels if you chose them correctly.

Here is a more detailed cut sheet on the inverter including the 48 volt model.

http://www.peaktopeakpower.com/specs/TN-1500-124A.pdf

mikeo · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

I

don't know if this inverter is designed for off-grid use as the charger portion doesn't put out the amps for serious charging.

From their addy

The TN-1500 series inverter chargers have an in-built solar battery charger and UPS functionality. Preference is given to the solar panels and batteries as sources of power and in the eventuality that these are inadequate; the load is transferred to the utility power supply, resulting in energy-saving.

it seems to react correctly for an off grid installation. It would just shut itself down if the solar can't keep the batteries up. The big drawback as has been mentioned is its anemic AC charger. If they would up the spec to a 30 amp AC charger to match their 30 amp charge controller, it seems like it would be cost effective for small off grid solar installations as well as standby applications. I also like the built in computer interface for monitoring and control. For me this is just a gedanken experiment as I have no immediate plans to implement one.

FL SUN · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

mikeo wrote: »

I

From their addy

The TN-1500 series inverter chargers have an in-built solar battery charger and UPS functionality. Preference is given to the solar panels and batteries as sources of power and in the eventuality that these are inadequate; the load is transferred to the utility power supply, resulting in energy-saving.

it seems to react correctly for an off grid installation. It would just shut itself down if the solar can't keep the batteries up. The big drawback as has been mentioned is its anemic AC charger. If they would up the spec to a 30 amp AC charger to match their 30 amp charge controller, it seems like it would be cost effective for small off grid solar installations as well as standby applications. I also like the built in computer interface for monitoring and control. For me this is just a gedanken experiment as I have no immediate plans to implement one.

I think the idea of this inverter is to keep uneccesary mains KWh consumption down.

*Thinking out loud here as this discussion is educating me as well.* What consumes more energy in mains KWh,

(A) Bulk charging battery bank by mains power (120vac) to 30 amp dc to keep the batteries at rated for UPS type configuration through inverter, or,

(B) Internally switching input mains (120vac) to output, and waiting for solar modules to charge the battery bank? This is assuming that the modules are adequately sized for 10% rate. Is this referred to as "C/10"?

My gut feeling is that there is a penalty in efficiency loss for putting mains KWh for charging in the bank instead of relying on solar and line to line connection internally in the inverter when dc voltage is below threshold.

I liken idea (A) to be like a domestic thermal solar HW configured with a gas water tank. If the water is heated by the gas burner at such a fast rate and high temperature, what is left for the solar to supplement? The utility would be primary, and the solar would be supplementary (if providing any energy at all).

And idea (B) to be like the same thermal hw set-up using a non-powered storage tank feeding into a tankless heater. The solar is primary and utility is supplementary.

Thought or ideas on this would be really appreciated.

mikeo · July 2009

Re: Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

I think the idea of this inverter is to keep uneccesary mains KWh consumption down.

This is one of the 3 modes it can work in. Here is a link that shows the computer program that comes with it that explains the settings better:
http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/1945479.pdf

The battery charger is adequate in my opinion if this device is used as a standby inverter even if there is no solar attached. The main charger is certainly large enough to float charge a 400 amp hours or more of AGM battery until needed. The problem I see is recharging the battery after an extended outage without an external battery charger with or without the solar.

In the energy savings mode, the 12 volt 1500 watt inverter would be pretty inadequate for most grid tied situations with its max solar capacity of 400 watts. I don't think system efficiency would save you much money if you get 5 hour of sun a day = 2kw at about 50% efficiency = 1Kw = .08 to .12 cents a day savings in electricity depending on the electricity rate in most of the US.

In off grid mode with 400 watts of solar and 400 amps of batteries with an additional 30 amp charger and a 3000 watt generator , I think it would likely be more cost effective for a small weekend cabin or the frugal hill hippy that has but few power requirements. In this case they could even take the 30% tax credit on the system I suggested. It seems this inverter would be almost perfect if it included that 30 amp battery charger in the package instead of 5 amps at this price. Yes while I am wishing, also make the charge controller MPPT. Its sells for $700 at Jameco

Any feedback on this Samlex inverter?

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