Truth About Skystream & SWWP

Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

RandomJoe:

I like your attitude about rebuilding your Air Breeze. You'll have to add another slip ring to output the 3-phase, since there's only two for the rectified DC. I have an extra one if you ever need it.

The challenge will be to figure out a mechanical overspeed mechanism since the Air Breeze also uses an electronic control built into the circuit board. This could be a fun project, though. I bet the otherpower dudes could come up with some wickedly diabolical solution. LOL, maybe a centrifugally activated playing card attached to a spring operated clothes pin. And speaking of Winchargers, that air brake mechanism might be perfect, now that I think about it.

Wind turbines do more than just provide renewable energy. They also provide endless hours of entertainment figuring out how to fix them. Lets face it, PV is boring. (Just kidding.)

Jacob:

I completely agree with you about some of the older solutions. Sorry to give the wrong impression, just trying to point out that mechanical systems can have drawbacks too. Quality engineering, whether mechanical or electrical will always stand the test of time.

The downwind tower shadow does cause a fluttering sound in high winds, obviously indicating turbulence and blade vibration, although not nearly as severe as with furling. It's especially noticeable on the smaller models where the blades are much closer to the tower and turn at a higher RPM. I won't argue that it's a perfect solution, but the hinged blade greatly mitigates any stress fracturing potential. I'll humbly stand by my opinion that it's the best mechanical system on the market right now.

The new composite polymer blades do seem to be holding up quite well so far and are MUCH quieter than the old wooden blades. Haven't heard of any problems yet, but as you said: only time will tell.

Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

jacobs wrote: »

How many people will tolerate the occasional helicopter type noise of the currently produced Proven? Even when it's at it's quietest, it's still far noisier than the old Jacobs machines.

Yes, I'm very opinionated about the older wind generator designs but they have time proven themselves. Many of the old Jacobs wind generators are still around and running great after 80 years. Will ANY of the currently manufactured machines do that? Are they designed for long life or a quick sale?

Guess we'll have to wait 80 years to find out. But don't forget, there was plenty of garbage being put on the market back in the "good old days" too. Capitalism wasn't invented just last week.

It's always easy to point out a classic after the fact. Hopefully, just like back then, the glut of new machines being developed at the moment will be winnowed out by the market place. The cream will always rise to the top.

You seem to want to get into a spitting contest over the virtues of this machine vs that. I do happen to like Proven's engineering and their ongoing willingness to improve their product, which would seem to indicate that they might be in it for the long haul, unlike, perhaps, SWWP. You call it a helicopter noise, I'll call it a flutter, which happens only during the heaviest winds. I don't find it objectionable. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

BTW, I'd love to see an old Jake that's been running continuously for 80 years without ever having being rebuilt or having any parts replaced. Where is one located?

Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

Your points are all well taken. I totally agree that it's possible to design and manufacture a quality small wind machine. Even in the 21st century.

Perhaps painted spruce will turn out to be the best possible material for making wind turbine blades, assuming we can find enough old growth timber that we're willing to cut down for the purpose. If we never try new materials, how will we ever know if there's a better alternative? But the idea that all modern wind developers are only interested in a making a quick buck is just plain wrong, in my opinion. So is the idea that all the old timers were only concerned with perfection.

Skystream blades are known to have had problems with de-lamination and the company is doing little to address the problem, not even admitting that it exists. I have not yet heard of any of the new Proven blades having any issues, but perhaps you are aware of something that I am not. When you lay a Skystream blade next to a new Proven 6 blade, the difference in quality seems fairly obvious. I'm no expert in polymers, but I do get the impression that Proven has put a lot of careful consideration into their material selection. Heck, maybe it'd be worth slapping a coat of paint on polymer blades too, just to better protect them from UV light. Couldn't hurt, I suppose, but you'd have to rebalance them and they'd be a little heavier.

But getting back to the original topic of this thread, I would suggest that the ultimate difference between a SWWP blade and a Proven blade has little to do with whether either company should have used spruce instead of polymer, but has more to do with workmanship and company integrity.

As for your experience with Proven blade noise, I only have my own experience to go by. I've been involved with several Proven installations at this point, and my office is within about 200 feet line of sight distance from a Proven 6 that's been operating for a year and a half. It's been through some pretty brutal wind storms over the last two winters, with gusts well into the 90 mph range. Yes, you can hear it pretty clearly during those gales, but only when you go outside. I can't hear it at all inside my office, but then the sound of the wind against the building may well be masking it. In a 20 mph wind, it's pretty darn quiet. You can hear a slight swishing sound, but not if a car should happen to be driving by. I do know there has never been a single complaint from any neighbors, some of whom are almost within falling distance of the tower. The nice thing is that the RPMs stay almost completely constant during those big peak winds, continuing to feed full power out to the grid without the turbine needing to turn itself out of the wind for protection. The kW-h really rack up at those times, 20A at 300VDC. The turbine has had a few other issues, but not with noise.

Perhaps the Proven you listened to was not assembled properly, or was in need of service. Maybe one of the springs came loose, which has been known to happen, especially if the bolts weren't thread-locked or torqued properly. A sampling of one doesn't seem like much of a data set to condemn an entire company over.

The truth is, there's no such thing as a completely silent wind turbine that I'm aware of. Each machine has it's own idiosyncrasies, and that's part of the enjoyment of working with them. I do think it's fantastic that you are so happy with your old Jake. Here's to another 80 years of reliable service.

Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

Amen to that. Let's move on.

Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

Truth Squad wrote: »

...Back to Skystream, one of the big problems with the circuitry is the quality and design both. You could always tell when a bad batch of capacitors were in because during testing, you'd hear them blowing up in production. You'd hear "pow-pow-pow-pow-pow-pow-pow!"---sounded like a string of firecrackers.

Southwest Windpower is now selling segmented towers for the Skystream. Be advised those towers come from China and have quality issues of their own related to the welds. Once more, buying cheap crap from China.

These circuit board problems really concern me, especially if SWWP is unwilling to do anything about upgrading their source suppliers. Considering last year's price increases, it seems like the quality will keep going down even as the price goes up.

A note about monopole towers. Many U.S. tower manufacturers are now offering quality engineered monopoles for the small wind market. We've been able to get monopoles at extremely better prices than those offered by SWWP, and up to 120 feet tall, although those are still pretty pricey. These aren't tilt-up at that size, but you can have climbing pegs and safety cables added as well. Check with companies who manufacture monopoles for the cell industry, most of them are looking for new sources of revenue right now.

Switching gears, I saw a cute little alternative to the Air Breeze at a recent workshop, called the "Chinook 200" at a much better price. Also has a built in rectifier in 12 and 24 volt versions. Don't know much more about it than that, other than it's made in Montana. Maybe it's been covered here before, but I thought I'd mention it. Hope they're using quality materials. Would love to hear a review from anybody that's tried one of these.