info

SystemSystem Posts: 2,511 admin
I am currently installing a Aims 24vdc 120vac 5000 watt inverter to power a well
The pump runs on 240vac which will come through a 5kv transformer.
Has anyone tried doing this and if so any thoughts on the Aims inverter.
This is my first adventure in to this.

Comments

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: info

    if that's a modsine inverter then the pump may not like it very much. minimally, the pump will use more power to do the same work. this could cause a lowered appliance lifespan or it could kill it quickly. so there's no way to know for sure how long the pump would last with modsine even if you can live with the higher draw.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: info

    If it's a mod-sine inverter, the trasnformer will save the pump, but either inverter or transformer WILL die.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: info
    mike90045 wrote: »
    If it's a mod-sine inverter, the trasnformer will save the pump, but either inverter or transformer WILL die.

    oh, why's that so mike? i'm not seeing why they would be harmed.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: info
    niel wrote: »
    oh, why's that so mike? i'm not seeing why they would be harmed.

    The wacky, inductive load a POWER transformer presents to a mod-sine inverter, is just not good. I never heard of an Aims inverter, and so I will continue to leave it on my mental "suspect" list of mod-sine till proven innocent.

    A large step-up-down power transformer, for a well pump, will be delivering a lot of power, and trying to push a square wave (the real output of K-Mart mod-sine inverters) thru it with power, will likley BBQ the transformer from the extra heat. Or the inverter.

    But, if it's a Sine wave, or close approximation of one, then it would be OK.

    A "5Kv Transformer" is also suspect, as not many well domestic pumps run at 5,000V

    I don't really know what Ship is doing, but i don't want to be near it when the magic smoke comes out of it.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: info

    as long as the transformer is rated for at least say 20% more than what the pump will draw i don't think any harm will come to it. don't forget that is a 5kw inverter and 5000/120=41.67a capability. surge power is another point though as it often takes far more to start an electric motor, but if that surge is within the projected current capability it should be fine. odds are if the surge is too high it just won't work at all possibly popping the fuse/circuit breaker as well.
  • blackswan555blackswan555 Solar Expert Posts: 246 ✭✭
    Re: info

    If it is a narrow (long thin) well pump, beware of it`s LRA/start current, It can be up to 10 x it`s rating.
    Have a good one
    Tim.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: info

    The transformer is a 5KVA not 5kv.oops
    The starting inrush on the pump is 12.5 amps and runs at 5.5 amps.240vac
    I could have used a smaller transformer but had this one.
    The transformer will smooth out some of the cycles before it gets to the pump.
    My plans are to runs the pump breifly with a scpoe on it to see how it looks..
    I guess since this is my first I wanted to get another opinion on the Aims inverter.
    this is really an experiment,If i have problems with the Aims inverter I will use it for lighting.Would this Inverter have any adverse effect on lighting.
    And then purchase a smaller pure sine wave for the pump.
    Any thoughts
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: info

    I still maintain that nobody is going to push much mod-sine/square wave power thru a transformer to a well pump. A little wall wart may last on mod-sine, but the electrical behavior of a transformer and a mod-sine inverter is *poor*.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: info

    btw, i have to also mention that if your battery bank isn't big enough that that could also be a sticking point for that to work. drawing over 1500w is not for the average battery and surges also will need to be supplied by the battery bank.
    i think the transformer will suffice, but surge power needed is still presently unknown. give it a whirl.

    mike,
    the fact that the waveform is square will not affect it's transform-ability as it is the fundamental frequency of it that affects that. a square wave is a sine wave with all of the harmonics in place. the inductance of the transformer will smooth the rough edges of the square wave somewhat though as the higher harmonics involved will be attenuated a bit.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: info

    I tend to disagree, as the core of the transformer, will saturate, and lose inductance, with the effect of resistance lowering, and more current flowing. I think a transformer would have to operate at 50% rated power (or less) , to reduce the effect of saturation. For a 5000W inverter, you'd need a transformer rated at 10,000w
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: info

    saturate from what? it's still only x amount of watts at 60hz. the smoothing of the rough edges may cause the transformer to dissipate a bit of the extra harmonic content as heat in the same manner it does in motors. i can't see this doing what you said it would or needing 50% more wattage handling ability. i did acknowledge it will need more capacity over a straight sine wave power source. he has to worry about starting surge currents and not square waves passing through that transformer and that may necessitate even more than the 50% you mentioned depending on how high those surges are. and as i already said the motor itself won't like the square wave waveform as it will use more power to do the same work and this could be up to about 29.3% more dissipation.
  • peterakopeterako Solar Expert Posts: 144 ✭✭
    Re: info

    To avoid saturation from the transformer use a ring transformer or by a block transformer check that there is a air cap between the core parts. If not like the cheap ones indeed the eddy currents will run uncontrolled and overheat the transformer or back feed the inverter. And that one will response using smoke signals to say i stop.:D

    If you use a fridge air conditioning or any other high starting current engine use full wave inverter.
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