Cheap wind energy?

Hi to all.


Wind energy can be produced using a great orthogonal surface...
My opinion is that I cannot sell all this incostant energy to the state because I will find strong oppositions. My idea is to directly produce ammonia with it. Practically there would be an ammonia industry that gets its raw material(hydrogen) from its cheap wind energy...

Ammonia peculiarities:
ammonia from hydrogen is more than 80% energetically efficient...
ammonia is easily liquefied...
1 litre of liquid ammonia releases more than 1 m3 of hydrogen at room conditions without losing much energy(around 15-20%)...


It's evident that I can build an hydrogen refueling station producing hydrogen from ammonia at the station...


Is my idea sustainable..?

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,980 admin
    Re: Cheap wind energy?

    As of today--no. Obtaining hydrogen from natural gas is quite a bit cheaper than from electricity (at least today). And if hydrogen is stored as a gas--quite a bit of energy is used to compress it to high pressure. Hydrogen is also a relatively difficult gas to work with. Because the molecule is so small, it leaks through pipe joints and must be stored/piped in stainless steel to prevent hydrogen embroilment.

    Ammonia is a very dangerous material and in the US, facilities that use Ammonia for refrigeration are heavily regulated and most have been converted to non-ammonia based working fluids.

    In the US, some 80% of Anhydrous Ammonia is used in farming as fertilizer. And it is often stolen for making methamphetamine (illegal drugs).

    I don't know about the process/issues/etc. of Ammonia to hydrogen conversion.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,569 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Cheap wind energy?

    So how does wind create Ammonia
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Cheap wind energy?

    well, dont know much about it...may be this link can help you a little...
    Stranded Wind - Wind Powered Ammonia Plant
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,980 admin
    Re: Cheap wind energy?

    Haber Bosch process
    The Haber process, also called the Haber–Bosch process, is the nitrogen fixation reaction of nitrogen and hydrogen, over an iron catalyst, to produce ammonia.[1][2][3] The Haber process is important because ammonia is difficult to produce on an industrial scale, and the fertilizer generated from the ammonia is responsible for sustaining one-third of the Earth's population.[4] Even though 78.1% of the air we breathe is nitrogen, the gas is relatively unreactive because nitrogen molecules are held together by strong triple bonds. It was not until the early 20th century that this method was developed to harness the atmospheric abundance of nitrogen to create ammonia, which can then be oxidized to make the nitrates and nitrites essential for the production of nitrate fertilizer and munitions.
    ...
    Economic and environmental aspects

    The Haber process now produces 100 million tons of nitrogen fertilizer per year, mostly in the form of anhydrous ammonia, ammonium nitrate, and urea. 3-5% of world natural gas production is consumed in the Haber process (~1-2% of the world's annual energy supply)[1][12][13][14]. That fertilizer is responsible for sustaining one-third of the Earth's population, as well as various deleterious environmental consequences.[4] Generation of hydrogen using electrolysis of water, using renewable energy, is not currently competitive cost-wise with hydrogen from fossil fuels, such as natural gas, and is responsible for 4% of current hydrogen production.


    Ammonia appears to contain more hydrogen than a liquid H2 tank of the same volume. And Ammonia can be used directly as fuel in a diesel or sparked engine--but it may not be the best thing for a family car (think accidents and partially burned fuel).

    While it appears to be possible, the cost to create the ammonia and react it back to nitrogen and hydrogen (and compress or what the hydrogen as car fuel) just does not appear to be there.

    Perhaps in some areas (farming regions) it may be somewhat practical (fixed pumping installations and such). Or as a wartime fuel substitute.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Cheap wind energy?

    Thanx Mod! thats quite informative....
Sign In or Register to comment.