New generation wind turbine!

icarus · June 2008

Here is a link to the latest generation of "DIY" homeowners wind turbine!

I can't wait to order one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZhHCyuEEDk&feature=related

niel · June 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

interesting concept, but very noisy upon fully opening. i wonder what the life expectancy of those stop arms are and the consequences of their failures are? vertical stacking would be a possibilty too. no stats on dimensions, output, or efficiency mentioned at all?

icarus · June 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

It seems that the loses from the the opening and closing would be huge. And noise, can you imagine in a high wind!

Icarus

mike95490 · June 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

Someone up in the north SF Bay area, has a roof-top array of oil drums on arms like this, on the garage. Been up there for 20years at least (visible from SB 101 fwy)

I have doubts of the lifetime of those panels slaming open & closed - would shake the house apart, and then panels fall off.

System2 · June 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

At last! Now we know what happened to all those kid-propelled merry-go-rounds from 1960s-era public playgrounds! They got them from the scrapyard and made wind turbines out of them, with a few salvaged closet doors! Man, that thing would be like living next door to a family of eight that always fights; hearing bedroom doors slammed constantly. "I TOLD you that windmill was a POS!!!" Ka-SLAM!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't let Four Seasons Wind see these gem. They'll make a grid-tie out of it and claim 1000kWh/mo.

System2 · June 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

Well, the first thing Four Seasons would do is to see if their friends in China can copy it and then produce it. After importing it, lying about its origin, and output, it would be ready for sale in the good ol' US of A. After all, isn't that the communist way?

Kim

islandskies · June 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

kimberly cantrell wrote: »

Well, the first thing Four Seasons would do is to see if their friends in China can copy it and then produce it. After importing it, lying about its origin, and output, it would be ready for sale in the good ol' US of A. After all, isn't that the communist way?

Kim

yeah, after importing it, lying about its origin, and output, then proceed to mark it up a couple hundred percent.. the folks in the "good ol' US of A" will snap it up cause its still cheap to them. After all, isn't that the capitialist way?

System2 · June 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

LOL, ain't that the truth!!!! Now, more than ever, America needs REAL solutions in alternative energy. And the only thing I can tell friends who ask is:

GO SOLAR!

Too many cheap, Chinese imports masquerading as "American made" turbines (or shoddy counterfeits of well-known American brands----though I heard in at least one case, a Chinese counterfeit is being produced in China under the supervision of a well-known American company.) Then you have the American brands that are not built to REAL American standards of, say, an appliance built in 1950. Many of the components are foreign-made, yes, even made in China. And that "quality" comes shining through. Not to mention the obvious slapped-togetherness of many American gennies that fail, and fail, and fail like some kind of anti-Energizer Bunny: It keeps failing and failing and failing...

I wish there was a genny out there I could suggest with confidence. I have yet to see it. What I'd LOVE to see is a huge tariff on ALL Chinese imports INCLUDING things like bearings, steel, switches, and other parts for EVERYTHING. We don't need that crap here. We need our damn jobs back!

System2 · June 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

I heard rumors that Southwest Windpower is going to stop assembling their turbines, which are made of Chinese parts, in Arizona and just have them produced in China. What a bunch of BS. The quality of their turbines has only gotten worse and now they have it all figured out...build them in China.

I wonder how long they will keep their doors open. Made in China, tech no-support and no- customer service could be as easy as using people in India.

Sounds real sustainable, don't you think?

Kim

System2 · June 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

That doesn't surprise me. American companies get parts from China because they're cheaper. But the prices of their finished products go up. They make money on the "back side" by lower cost parts. What's wrong with that? Well, quality, for starters. The quality of Chinese made ANYTHING is shoddy, at best. Hey, look at the food that was coming out of there. Remember that? The toxic grain? How about the lead-painted toys?

But ask yourself this: How sustainable is it to ship parts from China at all that use of fossil fuel when you could BUY LOCAL/SHOP LOCAL and get the parts made here in the U.S.? It's not sustainable. I read that the average container ship is putting out emissions you would not believe as they burn a dirty, raw fuel oil. To what end? to get it CHEAPER?! What is WRONG with these people?! But read their slick ads. They'll tell you buying their genny is helping reduce greenhouse gases! LOL! Including those of the container ships?! Slick marketing, no SOLID DATA ON REAL-WORLD OUTPUT. I would like to see more than the few folks featured on the news. I'd like to hear independent third-party data compiled from all the gennies sold this far as far as output. Or, hell, at least a quarter of 'em! Then we can see if this thing is really paying for itself.

nigtomdaw · June 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

Producing crap makes $................. till we get the idealogy of 10 % -20% spent on longevity over cheapness we will consume our quickly dwindling metals and minerals till we hit the stone age.

If I was the next MR-MRS Obama-Clinton I would place a longevity tax on everything from Generators to Windturbines if it doesnt last 10 yrs you cant import it..............hey not going to happen :grr

Throw away society how much longer ?

System2 · June 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

People that are producing these cheap pieces of crap do not care about longevity nor do they care about wasting raw materials. These hucksters are also lobbying congress and setting the tone in Washington.
Most people are ignorant about renewable energy and depend on companies like Southwest Windpower to mesmerize them with advertisements about how great this and their products really are. Most of us on this board know that there is no free lunch. Yet most of the public has to rely on believing what they hear in advertisements and the news, which in many cases is wrong and misleading information.
As far as getting a turbine built that will endure the severe abuse from the elements, it will have to built to do just that. Placing a steep embargo on Chinese crap is a good place to start. Eliminating the ability to call something "made in the USA" without it really being made in the USA needs to be addressed. Southwest Windpower now imports all of their crap from China and assembles in in AZ... at least for now. Like I said earlier, since they have adopted new management strategies that put profits over products, their product lines has turned to crap. Many of thier vendors lost their contracts to Chinese companies.
It's a huge mess. My hope is the new administration will address these issues or at least some of them.
Have you ever talked to someone who lost their job to China? I have and it is a damned shame.

Kim

nigtomdaw wrote: »

Producing crap makes $................. till we get the idealogy of 10 % -20% spent on longevity over cheapness we will consume our quickly dwindling metals and minerals till we hit the stone age.

If I was the next MR-MRS Obama-Clinton I would place a longevity tax on everything from Generators to Windturbines if it doesnt last 10 yrs you cant import it..............hey not going to happen :grr

Throw away society how much longer ?

System2 · June 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

Ya got that right! When you market to people who know nothing about RE, you can fool them pretty easily. The grid-tie wind hype has brought in a flood of people who think they're going to sell power back to the utility. The ever so popular "get rich quick" sheme. These people don't know much of anything about wind gennies or how they work. So they fall for the ads hook, line, and tower. With dollar signs in their eyes, of course, LOL!

People are scared by rising energy prices. The message should be "Stop wasting it!" But, no, everyone wants to believe in the Magic Solution that will allow them to be wasteful but not have to pay high prices. Really, a lot of these newcomers don't care about the environment---it's about the cash. And companies are ready to pluck these chickens for every feather's worth. See, look, here's Magic Solution right here! Skystream! Uh, and how much power does it put out based off an average of at least 300 in the REAL world verified by a third party lab?

There need to be federal standards for these wind gennies. That to be eligible for a grant, it MUST put out XX amount of power and it has to be verified by a third party lab based off real output figures. This business of handing out tax dollars to people so companies can say "Look, it costs a LOT less with a grant and cuts your payback time in half!" is dishonest. A genny should pay for itself WITHOUT a damn grant! If you have to have a grant to make it pay for itself then its not what it claims to be, is it? It's no different than saying "Well, if you get welfare and food stamps, you can make ends meet with this GREAT job I offer!"

System2 · September 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

Guess I'm not alone. Our wind turbines have been disappointing and troublesome. Does any one know of one worth bragging on? What's the largest turbine you know of that could be applied to off grid use?

BB. · September 2008

Re: New generation wind turbine!

Todd',

I suggest that you try not to post a 1/2 dozen questions/answers in a few minutes... Nobody will know where to post the answer/follow the discussion.

Your questions (and information supplied) are good point for further pondering.

Regarding Large Wind Turbines for Grid Tie--it all depends on what "large" is to you. Got $2,000,000 and you can buy a very nice one from GE.

But, assuming that is not what you are looking at--the problem can be broken down into a discussion needs and capability...

If you want a Grid Tied system with off-grid/emergency--Take a look at the Xantrex XW system... Basically, it is a Grid Tie / Off Grid capable inverter with a battery bank. Works like a Gird Tied inverter when you have utility power, and switches over to battery like a giant UPS (uninterpretable power supply). Also works fine for an Off-Grid system with generator backup.

And, you just need to "pump energy" into the 48 VDC battery bank (wind, solar, hydro, etc.) and the XW will take the "excess" 48 VDC and ship it out your utility lines.

It appears that you already have quite a large off-grid (?) system--so you probably have more experience than most of us here with larger systems.

In the end, conservation/efficiency, is going to be your first efforts--and then looking around for the best $$$/watt system for the rest of your needs.

Batteries have a "short life", and you have various conversion losses (95% charge controller, 80% wet cell batteries, 85% inverter, and such)--so anything you can do to cut some of the extra parts out of the system can help (direct solar panels to well pump, daylight pumping only; opportunity loads during the sunny part of the day so you don't waste battery losses/aging; running fuel driven generators above minimum 25-50% loads for better fuel efficiency; using solar thermal for hot water rather than electric/fuel driven water heaters; etc.).

Adding "tools" to monitor your system (logger for kWhr production/usage, Battery Monitor on battery bank) and comparing $$$/kWhr to see trade offs in real terms between various solutions; etc...

In the end, it appears that costs for electricity pretty much ranges (in the US, 20-25 years, good sun, retail installed price, including battery replacement, no interest costs or taxes included) around $0.10-$0.20 per kWhr for utility; $0.25-$0.35 for Grid Tied solar, and $1.00+ per kWhr for off-grid solar and fuel supplied power.

In the end, there are no easy/cheap answers (as you well know).

-Bill

New generation wind turbine!

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