Evergreen Spruce

System
System Posts: 2,511 admin
in General Solar Power Topics #1
May be a beginner question but...

If they have 170w 180W and 190W models...why would I want the lower wattage models?

Thanks!
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #2
    Re: Evergreen Spruce

    Because they cost less...

    Panels are only within 10% or so any way--so 190+/-10% would be +/- 19 watts--so would overlap anyway...

    Mfg. is probably getting higher yields (better material, better process, other minor improvements, etc.) and so they can rate them higher--and get more money for them. Pretty much, everyone just looks at the $/watt pricing (with good quality panels).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Evergreen Spruce

    if you are tight on space, you may need the higher rated , to get the most out of your mounting area
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Evergreen Spruce

    first of all i'm not sure why you would want to. who told you what? costs may be a factor, but high or low outputs don't always get reflected in the price and will vary depending on whom you were to do business with.

    bb.,
    i don't think the 10% tolerance is applicable to the spruceline as seen in this pdf spec on them. seems they've got one now at 195w and no derating and those of lesser outputs at -2%.
    http://www.evergreensolar.com/upload/195W_Product_Datasheets/S195_US_010707.pdf
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Evergreen Spruce

    The Evergreens are the best spec panels on the planet, -2% + 4%, has something to do with the ribbon-string process that allows much better tolerance than mono or poly slices off an ignot for the cells.

    My Evergreens are performing very well and if I needed more panels, I'd only look at the Evergreens.
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  • jtdiesel65
    jtdiesel65 Solar Expert Posts: 242 ✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Evergreen Spruce

    Just how meaningful are the tolerance numbers?

    Do manufacturers publish the distribution statistics? Or maybe they can't?

    Without assigning a probability across the tolerance range, do tolerance numbers really mean much? Is a -2/+4 panel better if the probability of it being -2 is greater than the probability of the -3/+3 panel being a -3? I suppose most people consider a -2 panel being better than a -3 panel, since a panel rated at a -2 has 0 probability of being -3. But, it seems to me that basing a decision on that fact alone does not guarantee the best outcome particularly when you start comparing larger strings of panels.

    In my view the best specs would be a 0/0 panel, but I guess i would have to consider other factors such as performance vs temperature, size, and structural integrity.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #7
    Re: Evergreen Spruce

    It is hard to measure anything that accurately in the field--there are just so many variables (temperature, sunlight, dust, humidity, etc.) that a typical home owner cannot independently confirm something to 2%...

    And, things change over time... From my BP 4175 panels (PDF) (175 watt mono-crystalline):
    Module Warranty: 25-year limited warranty of 80% power output; 12-year limited warranty of 90% power output; 5-year limited warranty of
    materials and workmanship. See your local representative for full terms of these warranties.

    But, they also note this:
    During the stabilization process that occurs during the first few months of deployment, module power may decrease by up to 3% from
    typical Pmax.

    Do the Evergreen also decrease up to 3% in the first few months--don't know.

    Solar Guppy can better address panel performance over time (he has tested some older panels for performance).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Evergreen Spruce
    rschepis wrote: »
    May be a beginner question but...

    If they have 170w 180W and 190W models...why would I want the lower wattage models?

    Thanks!

    now you still did not elaborate as to why you would go to the lower wattages. you obviously were told something to make you ask such a question and i'd like to know what it was you were told so would you please elaborate?
    as to the tolerance, it can be a significant factor on some pvs because what bb said does hold some truth to it, it just doesn't apply to the spruceline quite as he thought it did. when you buy say a 200w pv and it has a tolerance of +/-5% and they offer pvs at 190w and 180w with the same tolerances you could find that +/-5% of 200w is +/-10w. that means the 200w pv can actually be a 190w pv because 200-10=190. btw +/-5% is quite common in the industry so you better read the tolerances too as evergreen is telling you with their tighter tolerances is that those kind of deceiving practices they do not follow. now bb's point of how the layman is to know is another valid point because percentages of power are lost in the first portion of the pv life that when combined with the issuance tolerance could equal or exceed bringing the pv down to the next level of pv power. this is splitting hairs i know, but those hairs cost quite a bit more and can affect the performance of your system that you may have designed it for. for say 10-100w pvs that lose say 5w each at -5% that is equal to a loss of 1/2 of one of those pvs and at how much per watt?
    i better put a disclaimer here for any retailers (including our sponsor naws) as it is not their fault what tolerances a manufacturer sets their pvs at and charges the retailer accordingly for. beware of any pv/manufacturer that has high tolerances in the negative direction or if they don't post said tolerances at all.
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #9
    Re: Evergreen Spruce
    niel wrote: »
    now you still did not elaborate as to why you would go to the lower wattages. you obviously were told something to make you ask such a question and i'd like to know what it was you were told so would you please elaborate?

    Sure, becuase they are all cost the same at this site:(I know they are B models..good price)

    http://sunelec.com/index.html

    So I ask myself, why would I not just get the 190W model...
    I see they quote a couple other parameters and so I though to ask you all if those things made a difference. If not I'd just think to get the higher power rated model.

    Thanks!
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Evergreen Spruce

    No, They all cost different, they are priced PER WATT

    Also, those looking for the lower cost Sun Branded Evergreens, you waited to long they are gone and from what was recently on the web site gone for good


    From the Sunelec site

    MODEL B MODULE SPECS SALE PRICE
    ES-170-B 170 W, Imp 6.72, 25.3Vp $625.60 $3.68/W
    ES-180-B 180 W, Imp 6.95, 25.9Vp $662.40 $3.68/W
    ES-190-B 190 W, Imp 7.12, 26.7Vp $699.20 $3.68/W


    MODEL A MODULE SPECS SALE PRICE
    ES-160-A 160 W, Imp 6.8, 24.9Vp $592 $3.70/W
    ES-170-A 170 W, Imp 6.72, 25.3Vp $672 $3.95/W
    ES-180-A 180 W, Imp 6.95, 25.9Vp $711 $3.95/W
    ES-190-A 190 W, Imp 7.12, 26.7Vp $751 $3.95/W


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  • islandskies
    islandskies Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
    #11
    Re: Evergreen Spruce
    Solar Guppy wrote: »

    Also, those looking for the lower cost Sun Branded Evergreens, you waited to long they are gone and from what was recently on the web site gone for good

    So they will not be available again..? gone for good, is this true? :confused:
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Evergreen Spruce

    It was posted for about the last two months on their website that Evergreen has realised the "value" in the seconds market and what was on hand at SunElec was the last shipment to be recieved

    One can never say NEVER, but in the PV world its also true that those that snooze, lose. For now they are GONE
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  • islandskies
    islandskies Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
    #13
    Re: Evergreen Spruce

    Dang!.. well I guess I am a few days too late also. I am now ready to drop down for another 12 panels.. guess gotta go for "B" modules.
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #14
    Solar Guppy wrote: »
    No, They all cost different, they are priced PER WATT

    Thats what I mean...the same per Watt.

    If I build a 3KW array I would pay the same total for the 170,180 or 190W model. So this is why I was asking why use the lower watt model...just save space and use the 190's.

    Am I missing something else? (other than their inventory looks to be sold out)
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  • newenergy
    newenergy Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: Evergreen Spruce

    I get a little better price per watt on the 180s.
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  • JDR*energy
    JDR*energy Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭
    #16
    Re: Evergreen Spruce
    newenergy wrote: »
    I get a little better price per watt on the 180s.

    What is your source? Are you saying from sunelec.com or somewhere else?

    The cheapest I can find any Evergreen here in the NJ-PA area is $4.73/watt

    No shipping charges involved since I can pick them up locally. If I add the shipping charges from any other website/company.. the price goes way up above $5/watt
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  • newenergy
    newenergy Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: Evergreen Spruce
    JDR*energy wrote: »
    What is your source? Are you saying from sunelec.com or somewhere else?

    The cheapest I can find any Evergreen here in the NJ-PA area is $4.73/watt

    No shipping charges involved since I can pick them up locally. If I add the shipping charges from any other website/company.. the price goes way up above $5/watt

    I can get $3.89/W wholesale and w/o shipping charges on 180s and my distributor (AEE Solar) has very low shipping charges, but they vary a bit. Shipping for me, from Northern to Southern California, is usually under $100 for a whole system. I am a dealer. The price they put on their website is $6.69/W.

    The price differences sound crazy, but it's nothing compared to a lot of other electrical equipment. I bought a murray power center for about $120 from home depot and the manufacturer lists the price at something like $1000. Distributors that don't sell much directly to the public post high prices so they aren't competing with the resellers.
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  • JDR*energy
    JDR*energy Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭
    #18
    Re: Evergreen Spruce
    newenergy wrote: »
    I can get $3.89/W wholesale and w/o shipping charges on 180s and my distributor (AEE Solar) has very low shipping charges, but they vary a bit.

    Yeah that's a good price for the 180's. I'd pay that in a second.

    I have calls & emails into the 3 closest AEE dealers to me. Haven't heard anything yet.
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