Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

JDR*energy
JDR*energy Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭
in Solar Product Reviews & Opinions #1
The savings you can get on a "B" panel can be pretty significant it seems. I'm just curious if it's only cosmetic blemishes, what do they actually look like?

Does anyone have a picture of a "blemished" panel? Can these have cracked glass or anything significant like that? Or are we talking dents and such? Are they used?

Also.. I'm guessing an "A" panel means it's brand new without flaws correct?

Thanks!
James
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Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #2
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

    As I understand, both are brand new panels with identical full factory warranties. Don't know about their visual blemishes.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • tim
    tim Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭
    #3
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

    The blemishes affect the panels very little if any. I have 6 of the Sun panels which are basically seconds of the evergreen panels. And they work great.

    Tim
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  • rickeolis
    rickeolis Solar Expert Posts: 110 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

    I have 6 installed as well, and they are working very well!
    The only blemishes I notice are small (tiny) chips missing from the various cells in the panel.

    -Rick-
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

    The 30 I have, most were small area's of the silk-screened metal had small sumdges, one or two had a chipped cell.

    Percentage wise its not even measurable the power difference ... If you want framed art quality panels buy firsts, if you want the best dollars per watt get the Evergreen seconds or better yet the Sun modules if you don't need a UL stamp on the back... the modules are otherwise identical and all made in the same factory, on the same line.
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  • JDR*energy
    JDR*energy Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭
    #6
    Go in with me on 6 panels? NJ/PA/NYC area?

    Thanks everyone for helping me understand a blemished panel!

    Ugh... I was pretty much all set today to place an order for either the "B" panel or the Sun panel from sunelec (debating "UL" for future use), until I called them and found out there was a 6 Panel minimum. I didn't see that anywhere on their site. They said it's too much of a risk to ship one panel safely.

    Now I'm pretty depressed.. I'm in the NJ/PA/NYC area, and can't find anything that will touch their prices.

    I really only need 1 Panel, so If anyone is out there that is in my area, I'll buy the 6 panels, then I'll drive and deliver the rest to whoever else wants one!

    Or I just suck it up and pay the extra 200-300 and buy them from wind-sun, or altestore or someplace. :(
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  • tim
    tim Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭
    #7
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

    JDR

    To get the most out of these panels you will need a mppt charger . They have to be in mutiples. They will not work with regular pwm chargers. I bought a xantrex c-60 before i found out that it would not work, but it will work with the wind generator that i'm building.

    Tim
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  • JDR*energy
    JDR*energy Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭
    #8
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

    Yes I do understand the MPPT part. I just got a Morningstar Sunsaver MPPT ($190!! from nationalsolarsupply.com sorry wind-sun I couldn't resist). As far as being in multiples? I'm not sure I understand that.

    For a small system with 1 panel, it seems like a perfect combo for an Evergreen 180 or 190, Morningstar MPPT, and a 12V battery. Acording to my calculations with the voltage difference between panel & battery + MPPT, I should be able to get some good amperage into my batteries with this setup.
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  • tim
    tim Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭
    #9
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

    After checking the spec's on the controller you would probaly not be able to run two panels. Two 180 would put out the upper limit in amps and voc or voltage.

    Tim
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

    To be clear, you could use the 170-190 Evergreens with pwm controllers, its just a waste of energy as they are 18V typical panels, so a Xantrex C60 to a 12V bank will work, but you will only get 2/3rd the wattage

    On the New Morningstar Mppt, its a great performing unit ... I guess I can let the cat out of the bag :p as I did testing and data analysis for Morningstar on this project.

    The Evergreen and Sun Saver Mppt is a good match, they are efficient units with excellent Mppt. You can do two panels for a 24V system or one for 12V ( its a 15 amp 75 Voc unit ) ... if you want more amps its reasonably priced so add a second controller for a second panel.
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  • tim
    tim Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭
    #11
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

    Guppy
    Could you get 24 volt out of c-40 with higher dc voltage, and would you still lose 1/3

    Tim
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

    C40 C60 ( all pwm controllers ) are basically solid state on/off switches, when on, the input connects directly to the output.

    Mppt controllers are actual DC to DC converters, they provide differing Voltage in to out and when down converting convert that voltage differance into more current ( this is why they allow mismatches without large losses )

    So, Sure, you can connect higher voltage panels ( say 2 of the evergreen's ) in series to a 24V load, thats a nomial 36V panel string into a nomial 24V load, so 1/4 of the watts gets wasted, not a efficient thing to do, but it will work.
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  • nigtomdaw
    nigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    #13
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

    SG any other products you would like us to be aware of ? :p
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  • islandskies
    islandskies Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
    #14
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?
    JDR*energy wrote: »

    Does anyone have a picture of a "blemished" panel? Can these have cracked glass or anything significant like that? Or are we talking dents and such? Are they used?
    No cracked glass... no bent or dented frames, They are brand new. Only flaws I can find are like in these pics I took, a few wrinkled cells, only visible close up or at a certain angle to the light. Viewed straight on from a few feet, no cosmetic flaws are visible. I have 12 of these (ES-180B) and they all checked out output current/voltage to spec (I checked them all). I will get 6 or 12 more before the end of the year.
    evgreen1.jpg
    evgreen2.jpg
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?
    JDR*energy wrote: »
    Yes I do understand the MPPT part. I just got a Morningstar Sunsaver MPPT ($190!! from nationalsolarsupply.com sorry wind-sun I couldn't resist). As far as being in multiples? I'm not sure I understand that.

    For a small system with 1 panel, it seems like a perfect combo for an Evergreen 180 or 190, Morningstar MPPT, and a 12V battery. Acording to my calculations with the voltage difference between panel & battery + MPPT, I should be able to get some good amperage into my batteries with this setup.

    As an FYI to the community, I have posted a free PC application ( SC-View ) that works with the MorningStar SunSaver Mppt unit, its currently a monitoring progam ( no programming features ) and as my SG-View program provides a simple way to have web monitoring of the charger.

    You will need the Modbus to RS232 adapter/isolator , its free by requesting it from Morningstar to use this program

    http://www.solar-guppy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634
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  • JDR*energy
    JDR*energy Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭
    #16
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?

    Awesome! Thanks for the info on the monitoring software. That is just what I was looking for. I know Morningstar has their MSview software, but I wasn't sure that was going function the way I'd like. The SC-View screenshot looks perfect.

    The Modbus adapter is free?? Maybe that is why I searched everywhere for it unsuccessfully. I will contact them today.


    islandskies - thanks much for the photos of the panels. That really helps!

    I'm really looking forward to getting my system together.....I just need to source a panel! I wonder if I bought 6 if I would have any luck selling some locally on craigs list.. Not even to make money, just to be able to purchase them at a good price.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: Evergreen "B" modules - How ugly are they?
    As an FYI to the community, I have posted a free PC application ( SC-View ) that works with the MorningStar SunSaver Mppt unit, its currently a monitoring progam ( no programming features ) and as my SG-View program provides a simple way to have web monitoring of the charger.


    SG - You rock !!

    ( the message your have entered is too short. Please lengthen to at least 18 chrs )
    Yah right. Me too !
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

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