Battery shopping, again.

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hillside
hillside Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
And so soon. The 4 Deka 8L16 batteries that i installed in July of 2022 have failed. They have an 18 month 'warranty' so it's worthless and perfect timing from East Penn's battery division.
All four specific gravity readings are at the bottom of the scale
I'm not sure what I'll find here on the island but it'll be less than what's available on the mainland. 
The charge controllers manual states that they are not designed for lithium batteries. 
Is that final? 
 I've been using the Dekas rated at 370AH each but I'm thinking of downsizing to closer to 220-250AH. Faster to a full charge and there is not that much draw on them. A dorm fridge full time, (138 watts) 3 hours of TV at night (215 watts total) and a laptop.
In full sun during the day, a top loading washer a(1080watts) and propane clothes dryer.

8- 235Watt panels, 2 strings in series/parallel, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH FLA. batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller &  40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
5 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
4- 450 Watt panels with 4 L16 6 volt batts./ 2-Renogy Tracer 40 Amp controllers/ Xantrex 1800W PSW Inverter.
Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
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  • Graham Parkinson
    Graham Parkinson Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭✭
    #2
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    Sorry to hear about the state of your batteries.   Any ideas on what may have happened?  Suddenly totally flat sounds like some kind of system failure to charge or not enough PV compared to loads, not just plain batteries wearing out.

    Probably a good idea to troubleshoot before subjecting new batteries to possible similar fate?   

    Which island are you on?  We are islanders too up in the PNW, but our little rocky community has no roads or stores or power lines, or traffic jams ..... :)

    Offgrid in cloudy PNW

    MacGyver'ed museum collection of panels, castoff batteries and generators - ready for state of art system install .... parade of surviving and dead generators: H650, Ryobi 900, Briggs and Scrap Iron 2000, H2200, H3000, Kubota 3500, Kubota 4500, Onan 7500

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  • hillside
    hillside Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭
    #3
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    no idea what happened...(one reason I posted this.) The array has been working perfectly for 18 months with these batteries and panel voltage has been consistent ( I check it almost every day)
    Puerto Rico. We lived in Oregon for over 20 years but the winters finally got to us.
    8- 235Watt panels, 2 strings in series/parallel, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH FLA. batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller &  40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
    5 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
    4- 450 Watt panels with 4 L16 6 volt batts./ 2-Renogy Tracer 40 Amp controllers/ Xantrex 1800W PSW Inverter.
    Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
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  • Graham Parkinson
    Graham Parkinson Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭✭
    #4
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    Good that you panels are still providing voltage.

    Do your batteries have charging level voltage when the sun shines, but nothing when the sun is down? 

    That would indicate that the charge controller is working, but that the batteries are not holding a charge.

    If not you might have a fuse blown in the charge controller circuit, or a wiring fault.

    Offgrid in cloudy PNW

    MacGyver'ed museum collection of panels, castoff batteries and generators - ready for state of art system install .... parade of surviving and dead generators: H650, Ryobi 900, Briggs and Scrap Iron 2000, H2200, H3000, Kubota 3500, Kubota 4500, Onan 7500

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  • hillside
    hillside Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭
    #5
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    Batteries have good voltage during the day but I think you're correct in that they are not holding a charge.
    8- 235Watt panels, 2 strings in series/parallel, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH FLA. batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller &  40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
    5 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
    4- 450 Watt panels with 4 L16 6 volt batts./ 2-Renogy Tracer 40 Amp controllers/ Xantrex 1800W PSW Inverter.
    Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭✭
    edited January 16 #6
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    That's disappointing performance for sure. I hope you find the cause.

    "I'm thinking of downsizing to closer to 220-250AH. Faster to a full charge and there is not that much draw on them..." this could be a clue. And not only the 'draw' but also the charging. Lead likes to be used hard and charged hard to stir up the juices which goes to longevity/performance. Maybe the smaller batteries would be better but you might have to supplement with the generator more.

    I was going to say you are a candidate for LifeP04 but of course you need to be in complete control of the charging to fit the battery specs: "The charge controllers manual states that they are not designed for lithium batteries. 
    Is that final?" Sounds like it with your hardware. 
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • hillside
    hillside Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭
    #7
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    Thanks, JR. Also the 3000W inverter uses it's share of power as I've been told here..
    When the other 3000W inverter failed last year due to salt air humidity I replaced it with a Xantrex 1800W marine rated inverter and it's made a great improvement. It powers the main frig., oven, laptop and more. 
    8- 235Watt panels, 2 strings in series/parallel, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH FLA. batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller &  40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
    5 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
    4- 450 Watt panels with 4 L16 6 volt batts./ 2-Renogy Tracer 40 Amp controllers/ Xantrex 1800W PSW Inverter.
    Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
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  • hillside
    hillside Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭
    #8
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    UPDATE, finally located batteries, 225AH lead carbon and they're working great.
    But I wanted to relay something I tried after reading a posting online somewhere...(so it must be true).
    With a dead battery, presumably a car battery, empty the cells, heat 2 cups of distilled water and dissolve 1& 1/2 cups epsom salt (3/4 c. per cup water) in it. Put into battery cells and shake (?) the battery vigorously and recharge immediately. 
    Couldn't do that with 120lb. batts. so I just did the basics. The batts. took on a renewed life but they were on the way to the recycler so all I could do is test 4 of the cells in 2 different batteries. On my EZ Red hydrometer the readings went from 1125 (low) to "fair" at 1200-1250.
    Granted it was only 4 cells and without further testing that's all the info I got. No telling how long they would hold a charge, etc. but it was somewhat successful. Your mileage may vary.
    8- 235Watt panels, 2 strings in series/parallel, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH FLA. batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller &  40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
    5 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
    4- 450 Watt panels with 4 L16 6 volt batts./ 2-Renogy Tracer 40 Amp controllers/ Xantrex 1800W PSW Inverter.
    Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
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  • hillside
    hillside Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭
    #9
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    I forgot to add that I didn't drain the cells first. the batteries needed water so all I did was top them off with the solution,
    8- 235Watt panels, 2 strings in series/parallel, 4L16 Deka 6Volt, 370AH FLA. batteries, 3000W Cotek pure sine inverter, SRNE ML2440 40Amp Controller &  40 Amp Renogy controller, 24 Volt system.
    5 stand alone PV arrays; 12V gate opener, 24V Dankoff rain water pumping system, 12V Shurflo rain water garden pumping, 12V bathroom LED lighting and fan.
    4- 450 Watt panels with 4 L16 6 volt batts./ 2-Renogy Tracer 40 Amp controllers/ Xantrex 1800W PSW Inverter.
    Honda EU3000W generator for backup.
    · Share on Twitter

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