Buyer Beware!!

System
System Posts: 2,511 admin
in Wind Power Generation #1
Four Seasons Windpower ( http://www.fswturbines.com ) is selling cheap, Chinese knockoffs that are so overrated that Albert Betz might roll over in his grave over their b.s. power curve claims. Everyone who has purchased these machines have been ripped of one way or another besides the deceptive and unethical claims that are used to lure unaware customers in to their web of deceit. They are also pushing VAWT wind turbines fresh off the ship from China with even higher exaggerated output claims.
· Share on Twitter

Comments

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Buyer Beware!!
    kimberly cantrell wrote: »
    Four Seasons Windpower ( http://www.fswturbines.com ) is selling cheap, Chinese knockoffs that are so overrated that Albert Betz might roll over in his grave over their b.s. power curve claims. Everyone who has purchased these machines have been ripped of one way or another besides the deceptive and unethical claims that are used to lure unaware customers in to their web of deceit. They are also pushing VAWT wind turbines fresh off the ship from China with even higher exaggerated output claims.


    And you know this how ? did you get stuck with one, or a close friend/neighbor
    email from the "internet" someones mother has a cousin who knows a friend who swears this happened to his Uncle ?

    I have no problem getting on the bandwagon, I just want to be sure.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

    · Share on Twitter
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #3
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    A Massachusetts dealer gave me a name of a gentleman who purchased one in NY. That guy gave me an ear full ! I was almost ready to buy, that was until I spoke with the buyer who was ripped off. When I called the company to report my findings, the other party hung up on me. I am so glad this gal didn't get taken for a ride!

    The 2 kw system is advertised as 2000 watts in a 20 mph wind. It has a 10 ft. diameter airfoil. Do the math. Betz limit on this particular machine is 1900 watts @ 20 mph. Lets assume it is one of the most efficient machines available and is 35% efficient. That would allow it to produce about 1170 watts of power @ 20mph, again assuming minimal losses. 2000 watts in a 20 mph wind... Give me a break!
    This machine is a scam and I feel sorry for anyone who buys it. You can also find these same turbines on Ebay sold by various importers.
    · Share on Twitter
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    This brings up one of my pet peeves with the web. (This site isn't so bad but still suffers,,,) I wish that people would please learn to provide AT LEAST a bit of attribution to any claims being made. It is just not enough to say "I read somewhere", or "I heard something"! There is so much misinformation out there, let us not be contributors to it. I know that this site is full of opinion, and that is in some measure what this site is for, but when those opinions are presented as fact without attribution it just contributing to the misinformation problem.

    I can state that "I think that Honda generators are the best for this application"
    The key in that sentence is "I think".

    I can also say "Honda generators are the best for this application" I can also say, "experts agree that Honda generators are best for this application" (See link to so and so). It is a not so subtle difference. I know and trust many of the opinions on this site, attributed or not, but that comes at some peril. Many of us out here are not the experts we wish we were, (myself included!) and you take my opinion at your own peril!

    My point is a newbie to this site, or any other for that matter has no way of knowing the reliability of the source.

    So,,,,Please when ever possible, and especially if the issue is important, provide SOME attribution.

    Thank you one and all,

    Icarus
    · Share on Twitter
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #5
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    I will simply say;
    DO THE MATH !!
    The math and science is all that is required to debunk many fraudulently advertised wind turbines, i.e. Ebay crap.
    A 10 ft. airfoil with a 20 mph wind and claiming 2000 watts instantaneous output is virtually impossible. No arguing the facts on this little gem.

    Kim
    · Share on Twitter
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #6
    Re: Buyer Beware!!
    kimberly cantrell wrote: »
    A Massachusetts dealer gave me a name of a gentleman who purchased one in NY. That guy gave me an ear full ! I was almost ready to buy, that was until I spoke with the buyer who was ripped off. When I called the company to report my findings, the other party hung up on me. I am so glad this gal didn't get taken for a ride!

    The 2 kw system is advertised as 2000 watts in a 20 mph wind. It has a 10 ft. diameter airfoil. Do the math. Betz limit on this particular machine is 1900 watts @ 20 mph. Lets assume it is one of the most efficient machines available and is 35% efficient. That would allow it to produce about 1170 watts of power @ 20mph, again assuming minimal losses. 2000 watts in a 20 mph wind... Give me a break!
    This machine is a scam and I feel sorry for anyone who buys it. You can also find these same turbines on Ebay sold by various importers.

    Thanks for the warning! You sound very knowledgeable referencing limits and such, what would you recommend in the 2000 watt range?

    Cheers,

    Bad Apple
    · Share on Twitter
  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    #7
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    ATM there is not a single wind generator in the 500 watt+ range, of any type or brand that I would recommend.
    · Share on Twitter
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #8
    Re: Buyer Beware!!
    Windsun wrote: »
    ATM there is not a single wind generator in the 500 watt+ range, of any type or brand that I would recommend.

    I agree. Everything out there seems to be overrated and unreliable. For now I would build my own and avoid the scams.
    Kim
    · Share on Twitter
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #9
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    you have rite company?

    we buy (2) 10k vawt from www.fswturbines.com a few month backward for off grid agrikulture purpuse. they are hi quality wind mill and give more power then we wonted , ecspected from promoting from turbine company.

    we buy (1) 50kw soon now for our bigger farm.

    we think there equipement good & may be we put up mw unit or more soon for to sell power to india goverment.

    Albert
    · Share on Twitter
  • nigtomdaw
    nigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    #10
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    Albert... it doesn't take Einstien to calculate your comments are a little partisan ;);)
    · Share on Twitter
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #11
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    Albert,
    why would you buy these fine gems from a US importer when you can buy direct from your neighbor China?

    You should also know that Betz law debunks your 10 kw system from being legtimate. Your system components are also not UL listed, not that the 2008 NEC means anything in India.
    off da grid wrote: »
    you have rite company?

    we buy (2) 10k vawt from www.fswturbines.com a few month backward for off grid agrikulture purpuse. they are hi quality wind mill and give more power then we wonted , ecspected from promoting from turbine company.

    we buy (1) 50kw soon now for our bigger farm.

    we think there equipement good & may be we put up mw unit or more soon for to sell power to india goverment.

    Albert
    · Share on Twitter
  • 4seasonswindpower
    4seasonswindpower Registered Users Posts: 3
    #12
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    This woman, Kim Cantrell, is the daughter/family member of Gerald Dixon of NY. Gerald bought a system from us about 5 years ago,...we were under the name Four Seasons Windpower. It was to be installed by Joe's Wind Energy of Ithaca, NY. Joe, upon erection of the system, did not fasten the system properly, dropped the system to the ground, then claimed it was defective after he smashed the living %^&* out of it. When Gerald Dixon could not sue Joe of Joe's Wind Energy ( as he was unable to obtain anything from Joe)...Gerald came after us (Even though Gerald admitted in court of law that Joe dropped it to the ground in front of him and broke the $%^& out of the system. Gerald and Joe were found to be wrong in Medina Cty. Court in Ohio. Gerald was ordered to pay us nearly $11,000 in compensation. Joe was to pay Gerald Dixon for his errors. Don't know if he did.

    I can state all of this b/c it is public record. Look up civil disputes for Medina County Ohio and you will find this information accurate. Now....I suggest you ALL stop bashing our company for broken / rusty weld joints on "A system" that was dropped to the ground, broken, exposing inners, left to rust, then photographed and POSTED!!!!.....

    [any further threats will just get deleted and banned. -Bill B. Moderator]
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #13
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    Again, fair enough. Kim (and other user IDs) was later banned from posting (sock puppetting--different user names from same IP address).

    You have replied to several threads years old now--And have had your side heard (and brought some of these posts back to life again--always a mixed bag).

    We always have ongoing discussions about wind and the few really working options out there (and we tend to try to talk people out of going for the cheapest parts/bids--Wind done right requires good product and good installers). Want to try and help instead?

    -Bill "moderator" B.
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
    · Share on Twitter
  • bmet
    bmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    #14
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    Moderators,

    Would you please consider removing this thread? I thought pointless bickering was something the host wanted to avoid.
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #15
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    When a company is mentioned by name... We want to give them a chance to get their side heard. Has been over 5 years in this case. But, fair is fair.

    The original poster was banned around the same time and their information later purged--So we have no way to verify any of that information anyway.

    Regarding threats... All that will do is get the posts deleted and the poster banned. Not very helpful for anyone.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
    · Share on Twitter
  • 4seasonswindpower
    4seasonswindpower Registered Users Posts: 3
    #16
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    We recently found this post, and thought we should reply. As this post, though 3 years old, still pops up and may affect our purchaser's decisions daily. Not very fair to our company. If this thread can be removed, ALL of it, please remove it (to include the posts from Kim Cantrell/Gerald Dixon).

    Should a client be interested in a free quote, contact us. We will be pleased to size a system for them and offer several options. We offer many solutions ranging from 500watt systems to 5.5mw offshore Hyundai systems.
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #17
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    I will ask our host/admins. We moderators are not connected with our host other than as volunteers.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
    · Share on Twitter
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
    Re: Buyer Beware!!
    kimberly cantrell wrote: »
    I will simply say;
    DO THE MATH !!
    The math and science is all that is required to debunk many fraudulently advertised wind turbines, i.e. Ebay crap.
    A 10 ft. airfoil with a 20 mph wind and claiming 2000 watts instantaneous output is virtually impossible. No arguing the facts on this little gem.

    Kim

    Since this thread has popped up again, I will point out that "instantaneous" power from a wind (or water) turbine is a totally useless concept. One famous seller of wind turbines stated it in a little more detail: "We call this the instantaneous power because if you continue to draw that power the turbine slows down." This provides an easy way to exceed the Betz limit, although only for a very short time. Then you have to let the turbine build up speed again. :-)
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
    · Share on Twitter
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
    Re: Buyer Beware!!

    Been there, done that. I'm one of many who erected, learned, and dismantled such a wind turbine and gave away everything but the PM alternator (which I've been using in my micro hydro system for going on 5 years now) What did I learn? These small wind turbines and the promoted specs are awesome for building up excitement and separating the consumer from his money. They're also great for the retailers cash flow. They can also be very pretty to look at while laying back in the tall grass.
    But for making usable, useful power? No, just relax, lay back in that tall grass, watch the expensive wheels go round against the clear blue sky and enjoy your day. :D
    · Share on Twitter
  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #20
    Re: Buyer Beware!!
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    No, just relax, lay back in that tall grass, watch the expensive wheels go round against the clear blue sky and enjoy your day. :D

    If it doesn't make too much noise that is :D
    · Share on Twitter
  • bmet
    bmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    #21
    Re: Buyer Beware!!
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    But for making usable, useful power? No, just relax, lay back in that tall grass, watch the expensive wheels go round against the clear blue sky and enjoy your day. :D

    I didn't know that SuperBand Journey had invested into Wind Power! ;)
    · Share on Twitter

Categories