EU7000is Motor complete or Short Block

JRHill
JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
I have to to a major repair on the generator. Yes, I screwed up, it shouldn't have happened but did. A year ago the supply chain was an issue. Now things are healing up and I still can't find an OEM replacement engine or short block.

But I can't find the short block or a replacement engine. I think they have done thing limiting this to a dealership. I can do it but can't find a quality resource. This should NOT be a throw away device. But its not what lawn mower shops want to engage,

Any advise?
Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    It might be a throw away. Everyone is going to college and not interested in the trades. Well, not everyone I hope.

    What does Honda say?

    https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is


    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #3
    There are no Honda dealers around. The closest one an hour away closed this spring: Husky/Honda sales, equipment rental. Sold out. Its frustrating.

    What does Honda say? Their website points me to Portland, Seattle, the tri-cities. Its a BOHICA moment. I could do it. IF I could get the replacement short block or engine. I can't get anyone to give me a price or availability of parts. Needless to say, no ETA.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
    You are going to have to travel. I doubt a dealer would not be of help once they are hired by you. At that point they would either fix it or quote a replacement price. It is a great company. If it were me, I would try to get rid of it on ebay or take it to the dump. Maybe someone else has a better idea? Did you YouTube it or Ebay it?

    Honda is protecting their dealers. You are a special and rare case that they are not going to lose sleep on. There are so many EU7000i gensets out there. I must have sold or specked close to 100 of them. Accidents happen.  My opinion. Good Luck.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • m151
    m151 Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭✭
    #5
    It looks like Honda uses their GX390 industrial engine for the EU 7000. You may be able to buy one and switch parts over. I guess the head would be different(EFI), the block could have different mounting? Generators tend to use a tapered crank which you may be able to specify. If you can find a parts list you can compare the numbers. These engines are air-cooled with low oil shutdown, what parts are bad in the engine?
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #6
    If I recall correctly, JR was working on the genset (draining oil and such) when auto-start was commanded--He had forgotten to disable before servicing. And the engine was toast...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2022 #7
    Will this work for you?

    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Marc Kurth said:
    Will this work for you?

    Dunno Mark. In earlier research I had come across these very inexpensive "Honda" parts and looked into them. My suspicions were confirmed that the inexpensive ones are clones. There are of course glowing reviews and then some not so good. My thought is to get the engine out and shell/diag it. If not repairable at least I'll have the guts for comparison purposes. Since the EU7000 is an EFI there could be other variances internally like the camshaft? If the clone doesn't look to be an exact replacement at least then I can return it promptly. And there's no way I could verify something like cam timing which would be a $400+ mistaken experiment.

    The downside is its already difficult to get it to a competent repair shop for an OEM short block or complete engine. If I shell it apart it becomes a basket case that no shop will take. So I am sitting on it for the time being in case this really is a supply chain complication or maybe another option will materialize. I am competent for the repair. Its access to OEM parts that is my problem.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    That sounds like a good plan to just wait.  it is worth 1/2 new price or more if you can get it to run like new. 

    Plenty of good gensets in this power range for now. The Firman brand is good at Costco.

    Just not any as good as a Honda eu 7000is,  except maybe the old eu 6500i
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #10
    I don't need 7kw in the least. But the electrict/auto start and efficiency was the sweet spot. If there was a 3000w electric start EFI, that's all I'd need and I wouldn't be spinning a bigger mass to do less. Why don't those companies market to just me? Darn it, I'm important, aren't I?
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Hmmm  there is the Honda EU 3000is. It is 120 only which probably is what you want. 

    I tend to use split phase gensets (like the eu 7000is)  because they lock-up to split phase hybrid inverters like Radian and XW super fast. They also are big enough to run 3KW or so for the house and 3KW for the battery charge on a normal average offgrid home.


    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #12
    I have seen an EU3200is announced but it doesn't seem to be available yet. Chokeless and EFI but still pull start. The fuel efficiency with EFI is just amazing esp with the ECO mode. The 'ol Champion 3100 is getting old but still getting by.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #13

    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #14
    This is what I was referring to:
    https://view.em.honda.com/?qs=7f6cd0ce6b65dc42cb31f9e46a17796683d0d0e73da46010464a000a9289baf0d14d9db9e811813f06dfa5627d88d6ee91813ab1318a3df753a440f1bdecdd855d5840247b6a6e79aea1985515638581
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • Graham Parkinson
    Graham Parkinson Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭✭
    #15
    Have seen the fuel injected EU3200 in our local store and it looks really nice.  The increase in reliability and reduction in fuel consumption of EFI are undeniable advantages.  I couldn't confirm in the store if the EU3200 has a fuel pump like the EU2200 which allows use with an 5 gallon external tank (if you have a fuel cap with a suction line).

    Offgrid in cloudy PNW

    Full Schneider system with 18 REC 420W panels, 100A-600V controller, XWPro, Insight Home, six Discover AES Rackmount 5kW batteries, Slimline enclosure, Lynk II, AGS, H650,  H2200, H3000, Kubota 4500, Onan 7500.

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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #16
    Graham Parkinson said:
    Have seen the fuel injected EU3200 in our local store and it looks really nice.  The increase in reliability and reduction in fuel consumption of EFI are undeniable advantages.  I couldn't confirm in the store if the EU3200 has a fuel pump like the EU2200 which allows use with an 5 gallon external tank (if you have a fuel cap with a suction line).
    Just a 'lil bit of time
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #17
    JRHill said:
    I don't need 7kw in the least. But the electrict/auto start and efficiency was the sweet spot. If there was a 3000w electric start EFI, that's all I'd need and I wouldn't be spinning a bigger mass to do less. Why don't those companies market to just me? Darn it, I'm important, aren't I?
    I was only responding to what you wrote. Hard for me to do more than that man.

    The eu300i has been out there for over 15 years.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #18
    All good. We'll see how this unit rates. I bet good.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    edited October 2022 #19
    Here is the website for the Honda eu3200i...

    https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu3200i#Specs

    It looks like a nice unit. Has EFI (electronic fuel injection). Does not have electric start. Has some Bluetooth controls.

    It looks like an up spec'ed eu2200i--Where Honda should have gone years ago to keep up with the flood of other inverter-gensets with lots of features (like an hour meter for oil changes on the rest of the euXx00 line--How hard should that have been for Honda?).

    Now if Honda can only sell generators in California (it was a "smog" issue--One retailer told me with a hint of not enough $$ under the table to California regulator?).

    But why would anybody try to get California approval for fuel powered small engines when they will be prohibited for sale starting in 2024 (or by 2028 for generators specifically?):

    https://powerpalusa.com/blogs/news/its-official-gas-powered-generators-ban-passes-in-california
    Clean energy bills and pollution initiatives are rolling out across many American states. These laws are being put in place to reduce emissions and create a more environmentally-friendly country, but there is a lot of uncertainty about the specifics and timing of these laws. A new bill was recently passed in California that will ban the sale of new portable gas-powered engines. In later years, this ban will extend to include gas-powered generators.

    Are Portable Generators Now Banned In California?

    If you already have a generator in California, you will still be able to use it for now. The current stage of the initiative only prevents the sale of small off-road gas-powered engines. This includes devices like leaf blowers and lawnmowers.

    Currently, the plan is to make these off-road engines meet zero-emission standards by 2024. Later on, portable gas-powered generators) must also have zero emissions by 2028. This bill has been met with significant amounts of support and opposition. We’ll explore the background and opposing viewpoints of this issue below.

    Gas-powered Generators Ban in California

    This bill was passed on October 11, 2021. There were 47 votes in favor and 22 in opposition, so the bill passed with a majority vote. There are several stages of this law that will come into effect at different times.

    First of all, by July 1, 2022 a state board will create reasonable regulations that must be adopted by anyone who wishes to create or sell off-road engines in the state of California. These regulations will then go into full effect in January of 2024 (or sooner if that is deemed feasible by the board).

    After January of 2024, nobody will be allowed to sell or purchase new items that are equipped with gas-powered off-road engines. This mainly targets lawn and garden equipment such as leaf blowers, weed whackers, and lawnmowers.

    The ban has been put in place due to the heavy emissions that these items put out. The bill mentions that running a leaf blower for 1 hour creates as much pollution as driving 1,100 miles in a car.

    Once the initial zero-emission standards and policies have been rolled out, they will then extend to portable gasoline-powered generators. This includes generators for recreational vehicles, boats, and homes. These generators must meet zero-emission standards by 2028.

    To make this transition easier for the people who must buy new equipment, the state of California has set aside $30 million to help landscaping businesses afford new equipment that aligns with the zero-emissions standards. This is being done so that small businesses can afford to keep up with the legal changes without losing too much money.

     What about Californians who already own portable generators?

    Californians who already own gas-powered generators, RV generators, and lawn equipment are still legally allowed to own and operate these items even after the bill takes effect. No new models will be created or sold after 2024 though. The primary focus of this law is to support the production and sale of new equipment that meets zero-emission standards.

    To read the full text of the bill, visit leginfo.legislature.ca.gov

    So, a person needs to get a solar/battery system for standby/backup/off grid power (construction, earth quakes, etc.). And when that battery bank goes dead, then recharge it with another battery bank, which is recharged with another bank... Instead of a 5 gallon can of fuel.

    This state is getting nuttier and nuttier every day...

    -Bill  :#
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #20
    Nuttier there by the minute for me. Do not miss much of it.  We hear adds out of Carson city that the car dealers here are ready to sell gasoline cars to Cali when you ban them.

    The difference between Honda 3000i and 3000is, my neighbor has one and I "think" I can hear the difference a couple acres away
    3000is 200 cc motor, quieter (yes!), twice the run time, twice the fuel capacity, much heavier, has electric start, significantly higher peak amps, running amps. 3000i Handi has 160 cc motor, louder, lighter, comes with wheels, less peak and less rated power.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #21
    JRHill said:
    I have seen an EU3200is announced but it doesn't seem to be available yet. Chokeless and EFI but still pull start. The fuel efficiency with EFI is just amazing esp with the ECO mode. The 'ol Champion 3100 is getting old but still getting by.
    I spoke too soon. The carb on the Champion has developed a problem and the original carb has been superseded and any repair kits are for the newer version. Argh.  So on a trip to the big city I checked around and the new Honda EU3200is is nowhere in stock. I almost went with the EU3000is but being a cheap skate got the best of me. Darn it, if I'm going to buy a generator and have problems getting parts I might as well buy the HF Predator. I can replace it 2 times and still spend less than either Honda and its running output is substantially higher. Maintaining and repairing small engines is problematic enough but getting parts is just crazy.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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  • JRHill
    JRHill Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    #22
    BTW, I got a reply from a LARGE on line dealer of OEM parts, not knock offs. They apologized and said that the replacement engine for the EU7000is has a "major" backlog of 1 to 2 years. They couldn't tell me anything about a short or long block. I'm awaiting a reply to find out if the P/Ns are the same for the GX390 engine short or long block on the various carbureted engines vs the EFI. I'd bet the winning powerball number that they are not the same. But is there a difference?

    Yeah, I know. If I had the winning powerball # I could care less. But if I had those numbers not much would change except the logging trail would have some good cover of tire cutting shale. 10 ply tires for us and don't hit the side walls.

    The world supply chain is severely broken.
    Off Grid. Two systems: 1) 2925w panels, OB VFXR3648, FM80, FNDC, Victron BMV-712, Mate3s, 240 xformer, four SimpliPHI 3.8; 2) 780w, Morningstar 30a, Grundfos switch, controller and AC/DC pump, 8 T105. Honda EU7000is w/AGS. Champion 3100. HF 4550, Miller Bobcat.
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