12 Volt DC light question

cizzi · January 2008

since this 12vdc light bulb --> http://store.solar-electric.com/sol12voldcli.html fits in a standard socket, does that mean I can use any lamp or light fixture that i would use for AC and put this DC bulb in it and connect it to my dc source and it would work? or would I need a different kind of lamp?

icarus · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

The short answer is yes.

What you have to be careful of is not using the lamp on any 120vac circuit.

I have seperate 12vdc and 120vac wiring so I can't plug burn up the 12vdc lights with 120vac.

Icarus

cizzi · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

Thanks.. I actually called wind and sun today and he told me the same

By the way, just noticed you're in ontario.. I'm in quebec.. How many hours of sun do you get in the winter months with your panel(s)?

icarus · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

Assuming the sky is clear, we get ~3 hours this time of year, but with the reflection off the snow and the cold temps we get pretty good output.

Icarus

cizzi · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

I noticed you have a ts300 inverter, I looked up the manual and read some of it and I really like that its a true sine wave and 300w.. How much did you get it for? Also do you have the external fuses with it? How did you connect those to the unit?

icarus · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

I like it fine, and I don't remember what I paid for it.

It is wired with #6 copper from the battery bank via a 12 volt fuse box, and the ac side then feeds a 120vac breaker box. Pretty simple. The one complaint is that it induces considerable noise into the AM radio. I am working on a solution when I move the whole mess to a new building this spring.

Icarus

cizzi · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

Today I went to canadian tire and got a little 25$ solar double A battery charger. Just for fun before I buy a real solar panel. So I unpacked it and got 2650mah rechargeable batteries with it. I calculated with average sunlight it would take a month to charge 4 AA batteries

We'll see how this works out in reality, of course its a cheap product but the concept is there.

niel · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

be careful cizzi as those chargers are not usually regulated to properly charge those batteries. it may supply part of the bulk power needed, but like leadacid batteries they need regulated towards the end. nimh also don't like real high rates of charge at times as many chargers also have a provision for the battery exceeding a certain temp. i would prefer using a quality charger that has a provision for a dc input. here is an example:
http://www.batteriesamerica.com/universal_charger_plus!.htm

cizzi · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

So which batteries would you recommend for my solar battery charger? Here's the link of the unit I purchased:

http://www.sunforceproducts.com/english/details.asp?id=95

And these are the batteries I got for the charger:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396674306&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443250610&bmUID=1201676157211&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true

cizzi · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

Oh I think I found the right batteries from the same store:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443279218&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396672502&bmUID=1201676391466&OmniCrossSell=0111893%20Solar-powered+Battery+Charger

They are nickel cadium solar rechargeable batteries. Would those work better for the solar charger?

mike95490 · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

for small batteries (and some of the best chargers @ best prices) I like http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm I've bought from them, and have only heard good reports about them.
Many of their 2 & 4 cell chargers are powered from a 12V wall wart, and have an optional auto lighter charging cord.

Ni-cad vs Ni-Mh
Both will blow their "resealable" vent if overcharged/heated even a little bit. You need a fairly sophisticated charger to properly charge them.

Ni-cad has some fairly toxic metal sealed inside, but both should be recycled when dead, so for me, that's a non-issue.

Ni-Mh used to have a steep self-discharge, a month after charging and sitting on the shelf, they were dead. There is a new breed out that is supposed to have a better shelf life, I have not heard if that's true, or just advertising hype.

Ni-Mh chargers can almost always charge Ni-Cad, but Ni-cad chargers may not provide the proper charge for Ni-Mh. (very easy to overcharge Ni-Mh)

Overall, I'd guess Ni_Mh is the most supported battery, Ni-Cad is being phased out.

mike95490 · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

cizzi wrote: »

So which batteries would you recommend for my solar battery charger? Here's the link of the unit I purchased:

http://www.sunforceproducts.com/english/details.asp?id=95

Looks nearly identical to the
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/maha-mhc777plusii-multicharger-p-780.html?SP_id=&osCsid=gntq7cclh4rldam9ogr8tsbmd2
and the same price. It's either a sticker over the MAHA label, or a knock-off. I have the older, non LCD display model, and it works well.

LBergman · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

mike90045 wrote: »

Ni-Mh used to have a steep self-discharge, a month after charging and sitting on the shelf, they were dead. There is a new breed out that is supposed to have a better shelf life, I have not heard if that's true, or just advertising hype.

I use a number of NiMH AA batteries (mostly the Energizer ones) in various things, and I'm usually disappointed in how long they would retain their charge after recharging (i.e. not long). Great if you're going to use most of their power within a week, not so great if you need them to supply power after a couple months. I picked up a couple packs of the Rayovac Hybrid AA NiMH last year, which are supposed to have a longer shelf life. After using them for several months now, I can say they definitely hold their charge a lot better than the standard NiMH ones. I've heard the Sanyo eneloop NiMH are supposed to be at least as good.

niel · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

cizzi,
just because the batteries say solar does not mean usable by your solar charger which may only be a few solar cells and a diode. i know of no battery that will properly charge from such an arrangement including the leadacids which may be the most tolerant of this kind of charging. they aren't special batteries for that purpose either as they could label any nicd or nimh battery and call it solar. this may even partially qualify for the scam section in both instances calling that a solar charger and the batteries solar batteries as it's not totally true or false as it is a twist of words.

lbergman,
yes, keeping a charge on either type of battery has plagued and perplexed everybody since their inceptions. the best to do is to keep a small float charge on them after a full charge just like that which is done for leadacids being kept for some time. it's a good thing for someone to come up with a battery formula to extend the shelf life somewhat, but i'm guessing there was a trade off in some way to achieve it. got a link to them?

BB. · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

I have been using Sanyo Eneloop AA and AAA for about 4 months or so... And so far, they seem to work about average in terms of NiMH batteries for energy storage (~2,000 mAH for a AA battery). And, they do seem to have low self discharge (after sitting for 6 months, still seemed to be fully charged). Supposed to have 85% charge after 1 year of non-use... NiMH have very little capacity left if stored for 1 year without charging.

Costco has been selling a "kit" for ~$26 (8xAA, 4xAAA, 4 bay 6 hour 120 VAC 60Hz smart charger). They have been selling a card with 6xAA and 4xAAA (maybe 2xAAA?) for ~$19.

-Bill

niel · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

bill,
i would imagine that they should charge up fine with a quality charger meant for other nimh batteries. have you tried to do that with these batteries as using a 120vac charger is not what cizzi was interested in?
i am sure that those batteries will save some people much agravation. i suspect they may still be a compromise to a higher capacity battery as 2000ma is now on the low side of the typical nimh battery being made today. without the shelflife extension formulation they might have been rated 2600 or 2700ma.

BB. · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

The Eneloops will charge fine with any NiMH capable charger. I also have a 1 hour quick charger, and they work fine in it too.

There has been a problem with some brands/lots of 2,500+mAh NiMH batteries not lasting through very many recharge cycles before they only have a month or so before they go dead and need another recharge (even if not even used).

NiMH's... Great if you need short term planned usage (camera, walkie talkies, etc.). Enloopes work fine in the above--and after a couple months of storage, have more power left than similar NiMH's stored without charge.

NiCads are great for solar applications where they may be fully discharged and recharged the next day (like solar lawn lights). NiCads withstand abuse the best of any consumer battery chemistry, but they don't usually have even 1/2 the capacity of a similar NiMH battery.

Pretty much every rechargeable battery chemistry will die if subjected to reverse polarity (typical problem with multiple batteries in series run dead by the load and one or more cells reverse polarity--such as a flashlight left on).

-Bill

cizzi · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

Bill, thanks for the reply.. and I actually called the manufacturer of the solar charger today and they confirmed what you said as well which makes sense.

Now I'm looking for a canadian online store to order a 12VDC 11W light bulb.. I'd order it from the USA but its a long process with heavy shipping charges,custom delays, chances of the bulb breaking, etc..

Are there any known good dealers in canada on the internet? Looked on google but didn't find much. Thanks.

mike95490 · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

cizzi wrote: »

Are there any known good dealers in canada on the internet? Looked on google but didn't find much. Thanks.

I've dealt with https://glenergy.ca/webstore/catalog/ and always good stuff. They do a decent job shipping to California.
Lots of nifty LED and CFL bulbs, 12 & 24 v versions.

cizzi · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

Thanks Mike! I had come across their site and bookmarked it but wasn't sure.

LBergman · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

The trade-off is a lower capacity. I think this is because the separators or something or other has to be thicker. Neat thing about the Rayovac Hybrids, is they're supposed to be ready-to-use right out of the package...no need to charge them up before their first use. I can't remember if I tested that or not, though.
Link to the Rayovac Hybrid battery page:
http://www.rayovac.com/recharge/index.shtml

niel wrote: »

cizzi,
yes, keeping a charge on either type of battery has plagued and perplexed everybody since their inceptions. the best to do is to keep a small float charge on them after a full charge just like that which is done for leadacids being kept for some time. it's a good thing for someone to come up with a battery formula to extend the shelf life somewhat, but i'm guessing there was a trade off in some way to achieve it. got a link to them?

cizzi · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

My Duracell rechargeable were fully charged as well on my first use, I used my multi-meter and both had a full 1.2V which is what they are supposed to be according to the package. 15$ for 4 double A batteries is expensive but they are 2650mah if I remember well.

westbranch · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

Cizzi, you will probably find that the LED lights come in without duty, I have bought many from Hong Kong and no issues... Just use POST not courier...
Cheers
Eric

cizzi · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

Is that a typo in your signature or do you have a "Absolyte AGM 1055 Ah 12 v battery" ? that sounds big.. you can recharge it to its 100% capacity in 24 hours??

niel · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

lbergman,
those batteries have peaked my interest. do they give the capacity in mah? the normalized voltage ie 1.2v, 1.5v, etc.? anything you can add about them?
cizzi,
be carefull because that is the normalized voltage of the battery and is kind of like an average, but is not the voltage you will measure on a fully charged battery with no load. i have seen anywhere from 1.33v to 1.38v after several hours from last being charged. the variance i suppose is from different manufacturers and age, but 1.2v would mean they are not fully charged. Many run the batteries down to between 1v and 1.1v and believe me it reaches those voltages quickly from 1.2v.

icarus · January 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

Niel is right, NImh batteries should run ~1.3 to even 1.4 when fully charged. 1.2 is almost dead. The problem with a lot of these rechargables is the electronics were figured for 1.5v batteries. I have had a number of items shut down due to low voltage because the cumulative 1.2x6=7.2 vdc for example. My Grundig radio is wired for 1.5x6=9vdc low battery shuts down at ~8vdc, so with fully charged batteries it would shut down. I finally wired it to a Makita 9.6vdc drill battery and it will run for months, then charge in 1 hour off the inverter.

Icarus

I had an ex brother in law who PHD who does (did?) battery chemistry for Duracell. He explained that it was the battery chemistry that determined net voltage. Old carbon batteries led the way, followed by alkaline's at 1.5vdc. NiCd and Nimh run ~1.25vdc.

LBergman · February 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

Neil,
The AA Rayovac Hybrids I have are 2100mAh. I think the Sanyo Eneloop are also 2100mAh (or 2000mAh). The highest capacity AA NiMH available today are ~2700mAh as a comparison. Since the Rayovac and Sanyo are NiMH cells, they are the same voltage as any other NiMH cell (~1.2volt).

Most battery powered items these days are made to operate on either 1.5v or 1.2v, since NiCad and NiMH batteries are very popular. Of course there are exceptions.

P.S. I just did check of the website where I've bought my chargers from (www.mahaenergy.com). Seems there's another choice of charge-retaining NiMH there, claiming they retain 85% of their charge after 1 year of storage. They're also 2100mAh.

niel wrote: »

lbergman,
those batteries have peaked my interest. do they give the capacity in mah? the normalized voltage ie 1.2v, 1.5v, etc.? anything you can add about them?
cizzi,
be carefull because that is the normalized voltage of the battery and is kind of like an average, but is not the voltage you will measure on a fully charged battery with no load. i have seen anywhere from 1.33v to 1.38v after several hours from last being charged. the variance i suppose is from different manufacturers and age, but 1.2v would mean they are not fully charged. Many run the batteries down to between 1v and 1.1v and believe me it reaches those voltages quickly from 1.2v.

niel · February 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

thanks for that as i missed the one from maha and thanks on the 1.2v info. everyone that has these please keep the rest of us appraised on their performance and lifespan. i'd get some now, but i have some 2500mah nimh batteries i didn't crack open yet.

westbranch · February 2008

Re: 12 Volt DC light question

Cizzi, you read right, but they need to be bulked up with the genset, solar tops off. Batt was used and a good price, so much bigger than it should be. use is sporadic as cabin is isolated... a system in development...
Eric

12 Volt DC light question

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