Power box 1/5 mile from new lot.

softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭✭
Presently clearing two acres of burnt trees from 2018. I believe some could be debarked and used on a log cabin. I may build if I can get enough logs. Then power is needed. 

Presently about a mile from grid power. It costs too much to get grid power so I went solar at this location.

But the new lot is only 1/5th mile from a neighbors "power box". They run the cables underground in this area. Wondering what to expect for 1/5th mile of underground cabling on the roadside. 

My "rule of thumb" is that solar often makes economic sense when 1/2 mile, or more, from grid power. Of course it depends greatly on what the utility charge to run power. I think underground costs more than above ground? But I have a huge trencher - if they let me use it. 
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries

Comments

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Typically it is very hard for a utility to trust someone with no experience running underground power. You might be able to convince them if you can tell them what they want to hear. The more rural you are the better your chance. In the end they may just require a licensed contractor. If you know local guys doing this kind of work, volunteer to help them for the knowledge. 

    It may be cheaper to just hire a pro, especially if there is danger of you being hurt by the terrain. Rolling heavy equipment on a slope is a game changer. 
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 688 ✭✭✭✭
    Under ground is very expensive , we bury the wire 18” to 36” depending where the line is run . 
     Over head is 7k a pole for a few poles 2or 3 I would assume the price would drop after that .
      I have a roll of  direct Burial  service cable  500’ to run from the house down to my drive way . 
     The utility people wanted  27k to run up the drive way 750 feet . 
     They where cutting a 30’ path up and placing poles  @ 150’ plus 2 30’ runs up the poles . 
      Seams like a lot of money I’m sure it’s a 3 day job one day to cut the trees one day to set the poles one day to run the wire . 
     I do a lot of under ground service cables for homes 3 or 400 feet 18” deep with gas line run on the other side of the trench 30
    ” away buried in pea stone or sand .how many feet in mile

    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • 706jim706jim Solar Expert Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭
    wellbuilt said: .how many feet in mile

    5280
    Island cottage solar system with 2400 watts of panels, 1kw facing southeast 1kw facing southwest 400watt ancient Arco's facing south.Trace DR1524 MSW inverter, Outback Flexmax 80 MPPT charge controller 8 Trojan L16's. Insignia 11.5 cubic foot electric fridge. My 28th year.
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭✭
    Hard to quantify "very expensive". 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,027 admin
    When your bank account has less than 6-12 months of expenses in savings (in case things "go wrong")--Everything is "very expensive".

    -Bill "in my humble opinion" B.
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭✭
    That is my state most of the time. . Selling a couple modest Florida homes later this year
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭✭
    Slice of the lot in question. Looked spooky with the dead trees. Hoping the few live tree survive. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 688 ✭✭✭✭
     Nice lot soft , ( very expensive) = 12 15 bucks a foot my cost no labor, no profit , no overhead, no fuel . So 27 30 bucks a foot 1000 foot +- 30k 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 688 ✭✭✭✭
    My over head power cable 750’ 42k high price 12500 low price . I had a price of 27 k allso .  
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 688 ✭✭✭✭
    Soft your lot is 1.8 acres for 8 k so 4K a acer ? 
     In my area land is 2k a acre I’m trying to get 2 lots next to me 7 acres each . 
      It would be good to keep the traffic down on my road . 
        I may build a spec house on one of them . 
         There is a lot going on virus election I hope it all works out . 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 688 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes land is interesting , we have lots here that sell for a lot more money . 
     I can get Land 100 acres for 130k 
      Most lots are 4 to 20 acres zoning 15 to 100k 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,027 admin
    Down in our array (SF Bay Area)--To even get permits to cut trees on our own property, we need an arborist (tree surgen) to be connected with the application/guys with chain saws.

    I would guess you don't the crazy California limitations on cutting trees (and even dead ones)...

    One thing that we don't hear much about locally is the guy with a portable saw mill:


    A good way to make something out of the trees that still have good wood in them.

    Problem is that places with lots of building regulations--Cutting down your own trees on property, sawing into dimensional lumber, drying, etc.... Is not good enough. The lumber needs to be lab certified and stamped for structural use in homes/etc. in our area.

    Chipper may be needed:


    Felling trees is a young person's game... Would hate to find out that a "widow maker" (dead limb hanging high in trees) took you out.

    With all of the people going rural from major cities (COVID-19, working from home instead of the office, etc.)--Clearing and maintaining remote properties would seem to be a good money maker (you don't want California's version of "forest management")... But much of what you could do probably depends on local laws and regulations.

    Good luck Softdown and take care!
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,027 admin
    One of the local TV stations has been broadcasting old Discovery Channel shows under the brand "Quest" TV:


    Lumbering in the Pacific Northwest... Not sure how long the show will play.

    -Bill

    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • DanS26DanS26 Solar Expert Posts: 246 ✭✭✭
    In our neck of the woods (Hoosier National Forest) when one person pays the big bucks to run REMC power to their cabin in the woods its a big investment.  But to make it fair, all the other no power neighbors just can't latch on to that investment without paying their fair share. So the second person pays the first person a fair amount.  A third then pays both the first and second and so on.

    No free ride for the hijackers.......
    23.16kW Kyocera panels; 2 Fronius 7.5kW inverters; Nyle hot water; Steffes ETS; Great Lakes RO; Generac 10kW w/ATS, TED Pro System monitoring with PVOutput.org
  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 688 ✭✭✭✭
    Lumbering is a young mans game . 
     I love to cut allso but I’m creeping up on 60 now . 
     I built my house out of rough sawen lumber Mostly . 
     its allowed  in most places  to promote work in   ruel areas .
     We used a mt50 to cut .
      I do a lot of physical work every day but logging in retirement is out I think .
     I’m having a hard time pulling starting my big saws 75cc and up . 
     In my area the tree guys are tooled up , 5and 6 man crews . 
     They cut huge trees for 1200/1500 bucks 
     they pull up with a boom truck and dumpster chippers box truck and crane if needed . 
     They are done in a couple hours vs days . 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2020 #17
    Good advice above.  I would add when we do this for keeping our road clearing of pines and brush, we do this with at least 2 people for safety. Even when on my property, I make sure my wife or neighbor is home watching to cover my back.

    If you are alone,  I would set-up a friend or relative to call 911 if you do not call back at a predetermined time.

    Emergency room docs and nurses are amazing at what they can do to keep you alive. You do have to get there though!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • wellbuiltwellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 688 ✭✭✭✭
    The guys around here won’t cut old lumber , they  cut it wet , green  in the am and 
    im nailing up framing in the afternoon . 
    Like Dave said you need to work in pairs a chainsaw cut the leg and you can bleed out in 5 min or less . 
        My guys always worked in 3s If one guy doesn’t show there is still a pair . 
       Burger King will start you off for 15 bucks an hour , and feed you , all you have to do is show up . 
      Saw work gets 30 bucks an hour pretty much any where I would think . 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭✭
    During the times I sold log home we made a big deal out of the advantages of air dried logs. They shrink a lot when drying. 

    My concern is mildew from moisture trapped between the bark and log. Local opinions vary - of course. 

    If a log is even partially usable? Studs have tripled in price in last decade. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I could not tell from your pix if it was fire or bark beetle damage. If it is the beetle, at least around here, it is useless to save it.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,027 admin
    In California--Where there is nothing a new tax cannot fix--We have the 1% Lumber tax too:

    https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/industry/lumber-products.htm#Overview

    Beginning January 1, 2013, a new law requires a one percent (1%) assessment on purchases of lumber products and engineered wood products for use in California, based on the selling price of the products.

    The new law affects retailers of lumber products or engineered wood products and purchasers, including construction contractors, who use these products in California.

    https://www.hbsdealer.com/lumberyards/california-passes-new-lumber-tax

    A proposed 1% additional sales tax on selected lumber products was signed into California law by Gov. Gerry Brown on Sept. 11, resulting in a transfer of fees from the timber industry to retail lumber sellers. 

    The new tax will be used to fund the regulatory activities of four state agencies involved in reviewing and monitoring timber harvest plans that are required for all private and public timber cutting. Currently, those costs are paid by the landowners and from state general fund expenditures.

    The new tax originated with legislation supported by the California timber industry, which wanted the fees to be passed on to the end user to help level the playing field with timber producers outside California. These timber producers are not subject to California’s heavy regulations, it argued, and thus enjoy a competitive advantage. The new California law will also lessen wildfire liability for landowners, another cost saving. 

    Money down sinkhole. 7 years later, largest wildfires in modern California history.

    Good job folks.  :#

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭✭
    I could not tell from your pix if it was fire or bark beetle damage. If it is the beetle, at least around here, it is useless to save it.
    A small percentage have beetle damage. They went after trees that seemed to have soft "rotten wood". Fire damage is 99% of the issue.

    Drying logs has different techniques. here is how one yard does it:    https://www.woodmagazine.com/materials-guide/lumber/how-to-succeed-at-air-drying-lumber

    100 people have 100 opinions in my experience. 

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,509 ✭✭✭✭
    BB. said:
    In California--Where there is nothing a new tax cannot fix--We have the 1% Lumber tax too:

    https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/industry/lumber-products.htm#Overview

    Beginning January 1, 2013, a new law requires a one percent (1%) assessment on purchases of lumber products and engineered wood products for use in California, based on the selling price of the products.

    The new law affects retailers of lumber products or engineered wood products and purchasers, including construction contractors, who use these products in California.

    https://www.hbsdealer.com/lumberyards/california-passes-new-lumber-tax

    A proposed 1% additional sales tax on selected lumber products was signed into California law by Gov. Gerry Brown on Sept. 11, resulting in a transfer of fees from the timber industry to retail lumber sellers. 

    The new tax will be used to fund the regulatory activities of four state agencies involved in reviewing and monitoring timber harvest plans that are required for all private and public timber cutting. Currently, those costs are paid by the landowners and from state general fund expenditures.

    The new tax originated with legislation supported by the California timber industry, which wanted the fees to be passed on to the end user to help level the playing field with timber producers outside California. These timber producers are not subject to California’s heavy regulations, it argued, and thus enjoy a competitive advantage. The new California law will also lessen wildfire liability for landowners, another cost saving. 

    Money down sinkhole. 7 years later, largest wildfires in modern California history.

    Good job folks.  :#

    -Bill
    CA will soon reach perfection with a few more laws and regulations. I mean, look at the logged improvements over the past 25 years after they largely got rid of the rascally conservatives. A virtual paradise abounds. 

    /s
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still mostly own the top 6 here of nasty air ! 


    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,027 admin
    And taxes... We need a lot more taxes on the "other guy".

    New proposed Billionaire wealth tax.. Oh, no just $30+ Millionaires (to be adjusted as needed?).

    Moving out of state--That is an illegal tax avoidance scheme (this was August of 2020--Not some old article):

    https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/california-dems-wealth-tax-follows-people-who-move-out-of-the-state/

    Assemblyman Rob Bonta (D-Oakland) made an appearance on “Cavuto: Coast to Coast” Friday to discuss his Wealth Tax proposal. Bonta told Cavuto the tax “affects about 0.15% of the California population — not the top 10%, not the top 1%, the top .15%, about 30,000 people.”California Globe reported Bonta held a Zoom press conference Thursday announcing his legislation to tax the state’s wealthiest job creators and innovators – he claimed the “30,400 billionaires” living and working in California. (According to CNBC, there are only 630 billionaires in the entire United States.)....

    ‘Excessive Wealth’

    In the new bill is an introduction statement that the wealth tax is “for the benefit of accumulating excessive wealth in this state,” Globe contributor Chris Micheli reported.

    Knowing about the huge outbound migration from California, Cavuto asked what would happen to wealthy people who move out of state. Bonta said tax “avoidance” would not be allowed as California would tax them for the next ten years, despite what state they live in. Bonta said that because they accrued the wealth in California, the state can continue to legally tax it.

    “Tax avoidance,” with the primary purpose of reducing the valuation of a taxpayer’s worldwide net worth is required to be disregarded. “The bill authorizes the Franchise Tax Board to adopt regulations necessary to carry out these new statutory provisions including the valuation of certain assets that are not publicly traded,” Micheli said.

    “AB 3088 requires the FTB to adopt regulation designed to prevent the avoidance or evasion of the wealth tax.”

    Conversely, a billionaire who moves to California but acquired their wealth in another state, will still have to pay the proposed wealth tax for ten years.

    “In California, we’ve had taxes on millionaires in the past. We raised taxes in 2012 by 3% — and the number of millionaires and billionaires in California has grown,” Bonta said. “We have 25% of the nation’s billionaires, 17% of the millionaires, those numbers are up and we’ve grown to be the fifth-largest economy in the world. So, while worthy of consideration it has not panned out.”

    “Worldwide net worth under this bill would be calculated in the manner set for calculation of the federal estate tax pursuant to Chapter 11 of Subtitle B of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC) in effect on June 15, 2020,” Micheli said. “The estate tax begins at Section 2011 of the IRC. Worldwide net worth is deemed to be the value of all worldwide property owned by the taxpayer on December 31 of each year.”

    “In addition, any transaction with a primary purpose of reducing the valuation of a taxpayer’s worldwide net worth is required to be disregarded. The bill authorizes the Franchise Tax Board (FTB) to adopt regulations necessary to carry out these new statutory provisions including the valuation of certain assets that are not publicly traded.”

    -Waiting for the "Billionaires" to catch (set on?) fire next.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Excellent post Bill ! They will lower the amount and go after people bailing next year in my opinion.  2021 is when all the counties will get the covid day of reckoning, in a state with just about zero fiscal responsibility. Even our little spot up here in the Sierra will get hit.

     May I suggest  https://www.leavingthebayarea.com/who-we-are/

    Did not mean to go off the felling of trees topic. Timber !

    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

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