Field test report of new AGM design

Marc Kurth
Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭
edited October 2020 in Old Battery Tech Discussions #1
Been field-testing an interesting new 6v GC2 AGM design from Fullriver. Now I can talk about it.
The capacity is a typical 220 ah @C/20 but they weigh 83 lbs.  Run them down to 0% SOC then recharge to 100%, roughly following BCI standards but at a slightly lower discharge rate of C/5 to C/8, got 1022 charge-discharge cycles at 100% DOD. I am very confident that their published numbers are conservative.
This is not earth-shattering, but it certainly is a cost-effective incremental improvement for AGM's with well over 1,000 cycles at 100% DOD.
More importantly to me, a typical 25% average daily DOD translates to 3,500 cycles to get to the operating life of 10 years that I see with Concorde at a slightly lower average DOD. From what I can see, these will sell for about 10% more.
I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Excellent news. I have a set of DC250-6's and although only about 6 or 7 years old and not too heavily discharged have been chugging along without a hitch.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2020 #3
    "But AGMs are not suitable for off-grid applications". ;)  "They die in half the time of flooded batteries" because folks buy the bottom of the barrel AGMs. Generally, the systems that I help layout, are seeing 7-9 years here, and 10+ in cooler climates.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,909 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2020 #4
    Nice !  Any hope for their L16's getting the secret sauce? Hope FR does a better job also with distribution. My two distributors will not carry them. Tell me when they are in the store here, OK? Currently they have the DC 220.  Winter is coming and that is when offgrid batteries die.

    I heard all the water drained out of your lake ;)

    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • New_Mexico_Will
    New_Mexico_Will Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭
    #5
    Any idea when these will be available?
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2020 #6
    Dave Angelini said:
    Nice !  Any hope for their L16's getting the secret sauce? Hope FR does a better job also with distribution. My two distributors will not carry them. Tell me when they are in the store here, OK? Currently they have the DC 220.  Winter is coming and that is when offgrid batteries die.

    I heard all the water drained out of your lake ;)


    Dave, It's a long story but only three sizes will be available until they get more field time under their belt. They tend to be conservative in order to protect their reputation. (Last time I checked it was still good on Wrenches) As you can see below, only four sizes for now because the immediate focus is on the behemoth golf cart style EV market. The biggies in that market are undergoing tremendous changes.
    For now, the new battery models have limited use for my typical off grid guys because they run 2v and 6v L16s, but the motorcoaches with 8-10 GC2's are a big market. Maybe I need to get into the golf cart battery business because they have a 4-year waranty on this model in that application.
    100 ah 12v
    200 ah 6v
    220 ah 6v
    170 ah 8v
    Yes, the design will migrate into the DC series, but not overnight. Their DC400-6's are being sucked up at a record pace by the bucket truck manufacturers, floor scrubbers, and a wide range of industrial machinery. I am tied into their online inventory system and it is not uncommon to watch (800) of them disapear in a day or two. Let me know what you need and I will steer you - but it ain't gonna be the next day for now! The volume is breaking records at Concorde and Fullriver and I cannot explain it.

    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    New_Mexico_Will said:
    Any idea when these will be available?

    The 200 ah 6v and 170 ah 8v are in stock in Atlanta and California now.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
    A friend of mine up the beach a ways recently bought a 2nd house in his campo that came with a beautiful 24 volt Outback system with a bank of 12, Fullriver DC 1100-2's. I get a warm fuzzy feeling seeing those beautiful blue batteries.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,909 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    I did not mean to imply their reputation is bad! Only that the 2 largest west coast suppliers (mine) do not carry full river. They have Concorde.

     I tend not to use AGM because of price, but sometimes I do if required.

    For offgrid full time homes 220 is just too small even at 48v. One can get an emergency set FLA at costco for about 75 bucks each and this has always been a good back-up until the real battery van shows up.

    Is the rumor that the lake went dry true :'(

    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    One of my customers builds Cathodic Protection systems for gas and oil pipelines. These are PV powered remote sites in West Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Kansas using 2v and 6v L16s.  He has several system configurations, but this is the general configuration. The first 120 of them deployed by this customer are still reporting strong voltages at 5 years. The Concorde AGMs previously installed by the same customer 10 years ago, are now due for scheduled replacement.



    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,909 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Looks hurricane proof!  Is Delta heading in yet? I have florida buddy who covers it in 3/4' plywood with mid-panel clamps that bolt thru the rails for the mean storms.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Dave Angelini said:
    I did not mean to imply their reputation is bad! Only that the 2 largest west coast suppliers (mine) do not carry full river. They have Concorde.

     I tend not to use AGM because of price, but sometimes I do if required.

    For offgrid full time homes 220 is just too small even at 48v. One can get an emergency set FLA at costco for about 75 bucks each and this has always been a good back-up until the real battery van shows up.

    Is the rumor that the lake went dry true :'(


    I didn't take it as a negative at all, Dave! I was only saying that as a diehard Concorde guy, I have to admit that Fullriver makes a good battery. Note that I said that they were too small for most of my PV contractor customers. We mostly see 2v 900ah and 1200ah batteries for 48v systems. Larger homes will go with two strings of 1200av 2v.

    NOPE!! Our lake is right at 100% full, the weather is the upper '70s to mid-'80s. Took this picture while drinking coffee on my dock a little after sunrise a few days ago. This just the small branch of the lake that we live on. The main lake is two miles beyond the bridge near the middle of the picture.


    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,909 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Just kidding about the Lake. It is bookmarked #2 here if Nevada is ditched. Better save some room for more water?

    The storm off the west coast was suppose to suck the hurricane in and rain for us. However, the timing did not work and the hurricane is headed for the islands.

    Into our 5th week of smoke. Hopefully the window will open for us before Halloween. Friday!




    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Marc Kurth said:
    One of my customers builds Cathodic Protection systems for gas and oil pipelines. These are PV powered remote sites in West Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Kansas using 2v and 6v L16s.  He has several system configurations, but this is the general configuration. The first 120 of them deployed by this customer are still reporting strong voltages at 5 years. The Concorde AGMs previously installed by the same customer 10 years ago, are now due for scheduled replacement.



    Marc, what are the loads on the batteries in these applications?  Looks like quality workmanship 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2020 #15
    I do not know, but I shall ask! This customer is who got me to carry Fullriver years ago.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
    mcvgivor - The answer is a continuous 8-10 amp load on a this 24v battery bank. He makes different sizes, but I believe that this model has (12) 2v, 1150 ah batteries.
    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
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