Completely Confused Newbie to Solar

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  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2019 #33

    NO.   Am referring to BB Bill's description  --  wind your own on Ferrite donut cores,  primarily.

    Use Mix 31 material generally for HF.   2.4" OD,   stacked,  several cores high,   and taped together.   KF7P  has a very good selection:

    Info on selection of material is here:

    Also look at K9YC's exhaustive treatise on making ferrite chokes:

    Hope that these links work,   do not like the looks of them.

    Make your own DC common mode chokes,   choose the size of cable that you need.   KF7P  now stocks a huge core 4" OD X 3" ID X  1" high,   but,  you should not need one of that size.

    EDIT ( WOW !!  Edit NOW works on this computer !!  Thanks!)   Also,   look on K9YC's site.   Even info on Transmitting Chokes has great info on how to look at the suppression of common mode currents:

    http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/K9YC/K9YC-old.htm

    73  GL,   and let us know how you are doing.    Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,058 admin

    Vic,

    The forum software goes out and "prefetches" part (or all, depending on how large) the data from the link and displays it...

    Unfortunately, it seems to also prefetch PDF files, and what you are seeing is the header information of a (compressed, either actual text, or just graphics of text/mixed) at the beginning of the file.

    The forum software only "prefetches" if you hit enter after the link... What I do is to put a couple of <ENTER> (new lines) below where I am pasting the link. And instead of hitting enter, I just arrow down one line and continue typing--And avoid the whole prefetching thing.

    In either case, clicking on the "box" gives you the correct link and takes you there.

    Here is a nice kit I used to use decades ago to have a range of different Ferrites to work on EMI issues with computers and cabling (includes Snap-On beads so you can try different solutions without having to re-wire--Just clip bead over wiring, take a wrap, if you have the room). Somewhere around $40-$75 per kit (guessing, it has been decades since I have used, and I got them for free because we would buy beads for computer production):

    https://www.fair-rite.com/products/engineering-kits/?kit=24974

    And some information on suppression materials (you want "lossy" Ferrite materials--Low Q--To reduce emissions):

    https://www.fair-rite.com/materials/

    All of their kits:

    https://www.fair-rite.com/products/engineering-kits/

    -Bill

    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2019 #35

    Hi Bill,   Thanks,

    Have done the pre-spacing down the page,   but kinna forgot to do enough,   this time.   Am sure that there are very good reasons that this Vanilla SF  is doing all of these very cool things.

    Seems that "they"  have fixed  Editing from this computer,   and the freezing for 10 second prior to Save Draft has ceased,   as well ...   Thanks.

    Ferrite kits are very useful.   Love the Snap Ons,   especially for  cables that have connectors already attached.  That Monster 3" ID core is very useful for large cables on the output of large CCs.

    The following image shows two CM Chokes used on one,  of two CCs.   BTW,  all above ground cables are in EMT (metal) pipe"


    Thanks,   as always,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • WH6FQEWH6FQE Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭✭

    Well, they finally delivered the 300 watt 24 volt panels today, MY GOD these things are heavy.

    I was expecting close to the same weight at the 100 watt 12 volt panels were, but these are quite a bit heavier than those are. Which now brings up another interesting obstical to overcome. Trying to figure out how to get them on the roof, lol.

    There is no possible way I am going to be able to carry these up a ladder. I was barely able to carry them to the side of the house from the driveway where the forklift dropped them off to keep them from getting stolen.

    I need several thousand helium balloons, lol.

  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I hired some help so we could fire-line them up. If I had to do it solo, I would have built temporary scaffolding to stage-pile. They aren't just a bit heavy, they're awkward, and prone to catching a wind gust at just the wrong time ;-)

    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭

    There are any number of clever collapsible winch rigs out there; perhaps you could borrow one from a local contractor?

    If not, the old "long 2x4's as a ramp" works. Tie a rope to them and haul them up. It's easier with two people.

  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭✭

    Couple of things;

    As Bill mentioned,   a ramp can be used as a slide to pull them up.    Scaffold can be used,  perhaps even without extra help.

    It is probably better to have help moving and placing the PVs,   as the frame can flex a bit when one is handling 40-ish PVs single-handedly.

    One question, Robert,   you mentioned that these PVs were 300 W.   And that they were 24 V.   300 W,  or a bit higher wattage are often still 60 Cells.   Depending on your batteries,   and CC,   60 Cell PVs may need to be used in strings of two to have high enough string Vmp to charge many  24 V battery types.

    Think that you are still planning your system,   and just wanted to mention this   ...

    FWIW,     73  GL,    Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • TecnodaveTecnodave Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭✭✭

    I am using Samlex America DC to DC converters. These units are built in Holland and are much cleaner EMI/RFI wise than the inexpensive Chinese units, can't remember exactly but the SDC-30 20-30 volt in to 13.6 volt out unit was about $120 if I remember correctly. These units are buck converters and the input is common to the output. There are also units from Samlex America which are fully isolated input to output that have much better systems isolation, way less EMI. The 360 watt units are about $300 but for radio use, worth it, I'm a radio junkie but not a ham! Samlex America markets about 30 different model 12-24-48 volt both isolated and buck or boost converter designs.. I have some others which jam my FM radio., not any good to me!

    I have several units and have not had a problem with them.

    david

    2 Classic 150, 2 Kid, 5 arrays 7.5 kw total  2ea.  2S6P Sharp NE-170/NE-165, 1ea. 12P Sanyo HIT 200,  2ea. 4/6P Sanyo HIT 200, MagnaSine MS4024AE, Exeltech XP-1100,  2 Banks L-16 battery, Rolls-Surette S-530 and Interstate Traction, Shunts with whizbangJr and Bogart Tri-Metric, iCharger i208B  dc-dc buck/boost converter with BMS for small form lithium 8S 16650 or LiFePO4,
  • WH6FQEWH6FQE Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭✭

    Vic,

    Ok, I have no clue what you are referring to, but I did see on the manufacturers website it says "Optimum Operating Voltage (Vmp): 32.25V" whatever that means. As far as the number of cells, I haven't got a clue, I did not count them, but their website says "Compared to a regular 72 cell 300 watt panel this panel is 15-20% shorter and lighter" so I am assuming that they are also 72 cell since they are comparing themselves to a "regular 72 cell" panel.

    I have the combiner box being delivered tomorrow because someone told me I had to use that to get them set up with. Supposedly all 4 of the panels wires connect together inside that box to a bus, and then just one set of wires comes down and into the house.

    I am getting more confused by the minute.

  • WH6FQEWH6FQE Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭✭

    Tecnodave,

    Ok, so since I will have to throw away the three 40amp 24v to 12v converters that I have already got and buy replacements, which ones should I get for what I am doing. I see some listed just as voltage converters, and others that say fully isolated. Either way I think Im going to have to sell off my first-born soon.

    My eight transceiver radios, TNC modems, digital scanner radios, LED under shelf lights, laptop and three 12v LED monitors will all be on these.


    RC

  • WH6FQEWH6FQE Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭✭

    Technodave,

    Actually, nevermind, I didn't have the choice that I thought I did as I started looking closer at them and seeing the 3 to 5 week shipping on many of them. I ended up having to go with the SDC-30, 30 Amp 24VDC-12VDC Converter to get them shipped out now. I have to add everything back up to make sure it is still going to work because I was dividing everything up into 3 40Amp systems, but these are only 30Amps each.


    RC

  • WH6FQEWH6FQE Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭✭

    Technodave,

    Well, I have no clue why, but I ordered 3 of the SDC-30 converters, and paid for 1-Day Priority Shipping so I can get this installed this weekend, then I just received an email showing they will be delivered somewhere between May 2nd and June 5th. I called Business Customer Service to find out why the shipping was going to take so long with me paying for 1-Day shipping and all of the items being in stock, they were as clueless as I was. We spent an hour on the phone trying to figure out what was goin on with the order, but in the end we are all still clueless.

    So, basically, I have no clue if these will be delivered in time to install them this weekend or not. If not, I will cancel that order and install the Chinese converters that I already have.

    RC

  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 1,482 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2019 #45

    From the Vmp. you have stated these are 60 cell panels. 72 cell panels would have a Vmp. in the 36 - 37 volt range. The Vmp. of your panels is borderline low for charging 24 volt batteries. 60 cell panels are actually considered 20 volt" nominal".

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • WH6FQEWH6FQE Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭✭

    Ok? So the solar panels that I just fought to get shipped here aren't even going to work now? This is good to know before I waste my time trying to figure out how to get them on the roof.

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,058 admin

    How many panels did you get?

    You can use them very nicely, but you should put then in series (2 or 3 typically) with an MPPT type charge controller (what controller do you plan on using?

    Bill

    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • TecnodaveTecnodave Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭✭✭

    The Samlex America fully isolated converter that I use for radio silence is the IDC-360-B-12 20-32 volts in 12.5 vdc out, not adjustable. I did have to order and wait......The SDC-30 was purchased on Amazon. My main stereo receiver, preamp,power amp (Carver) runs off an Exectech XP-1100 but I use the buck converters to run other devices including a Sony car receiver. Both the Exeltech and the Samlex America were selected for low EMI/RFI. I use PEMF medical devices for health reasons and do not want external EMI interference.

    PEMF......pulsed electromagnetic frequency.......a new medical technology.......developed in Russia for use in their space program.........Search keywords.....SCENAR........DENAS.....pointer to best source outside Russia. denaspainreleifstore.com This technology is a modern computer based adaption of traditional Chinese medicine...accupuncture.....meridians of energy....etc. not the place to discuss this technology so I'll leave it at that.

    2 Classic 150, 2 Kid, 5 arrays 7.5 kw total  2ea.  2S6P Sharp NE-170/NE-165, 1ea. 12P Sanyo HIT 200,  2ea. 4/6P Sanyo HIT 200, MagnaSine MS4024AE, Exeltech XP-1100,  2 Banks L-16 battery, Rolls-Surette S-530 and Interstate Traction, Shunts with whizbangJr and Bogart Tri-Metric, iCharger i208B  dc-dc buck/boost converter with BMS for small form lithium 8S 16650 or LiFePO4,
  • WH6FQEWH6FQE Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭✭

    I have 4 of the Renogy 300Watt 24volt panels and a Renogy Advanced Rover Li 40amp MPPT charge controller.


    RC

  • WH6FQEWH6FQE Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭✭

    Technodave,

    Well, they didn't ship out today and the delivery still shows May 3 - June 5, so it doesn't look like I am going to have to go with the Chinese versions that I already have.

    RC

  • WH6FQEWH6FQE Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭✭

    Another thing I am trying to figure out how to power on the battery bank is the wifi router which is 19v.

    The cable modem I will have to power from the generator with it being 110 volts, but I have it on a battery UPS system which will last a few hours. I would like to switch that out to a 12v modem, but Spectrum is saying that I can not use my own modem and I have to use their modem for it to work, which doesn't make any sense to me.

    Im thinking about just ordering the 12v Netgear Cable Modem and seeing if I can get it to work.

    RC

  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You might want to check specs on the router. Some can take quite a wide voltage range. If not (could be >30vdc in cold and/or EQ), you could consider using something like:

    The router likely doesn't draw more than the 50w or so these could handle, but if it does there are higher power versions.

    For the cable modem, it's likely DC internally. Does it use a power brick? If not, probably best not to try bypassing the AC internals. I might, but...

    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • WH6FQEWH6FQE Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭✭

    Estragon,

    No the modem does not have a brick, it is just a simple 110v AC plug. Since I am switching out the modem anyway to a 12volt version I am ordering a Router/Modem combo that is 12v and a wifi mesh range extender that is also 12v. I will put the router that I have now away as a backup incase I need it later, it is only a couple months old.

    If it were my modem I may try to bypass the AC/DC converter inside and see if I can get it to run on 12v but unfortunately it belongs to the cable company, so they can have their junk back and they can stop charging me $10 a month to rent it.

    RC

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,058 admin

    You may have issues with the Cable Company regarding the "unsupported" modem.

    At least for Comcast in my area, the cable company registers the modem serial number and also downloads software and configuration updates (if/as needed).

    Depending on your cable company, you might not be able to get the other brand cable modem to talk back to the mothership.

    -Bill

    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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