Exciting solar technology in the works?

softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭✭

Panels keep growing slightly more efficient with each passing year. Tariffs seem to have diminished the downward trend in pricing? Lithium batteries are improving but have issues with indoor usage. Have not seen significant change in inverter and charge controller technology. Lead acid batteries do not seem to have hardly changed in decades.

Seems we should see more game changers. Like a 220 volt inverter from Outback or Schneider? Some real money revitalizing iron-nickel batteries? A "plug and play" kit large enough for full time usage. Something.

First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries

Comments

  • clockmanfranclockmanfran Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019 #2

    PV, Solar panels ....... 'Hats off to the Chinese for ignoring the West's patent legislation'    and getting the World going with cost effective PV.

    Inverters ...... Here I am talking about creating 120vac 60HZ and 240vac 50HZ at a constant 6KW from a DC source.    .......There are a few interesting concepts under construction at present. I particularly like the new stepped Inverter without a battery backup arrangement, that drives from a renewable energy source, its simple yet very cleverly thought out..

    Our Own OzInverter is a simple H bridge design concept that has modern bits in it, but its a real machine and can really do 6KW.     

     It has been remarked to me, "its to cheap to make, and how can a manufacturer make any Profit ?" and "How can a retailer make any profit?".      Infact, I was recently described as being a 'anti capitalism' person.      All because the OzInverter can be made anywhere in the World by anyone, and even using re-cyled  parts,  as long as they follow the instructions..

       My philosophy, KEEP IT SIMPLE, MAKE IT ROBUST, and importantly KEEP IT COST EFFECTIVE.

    Batteries, we know what works, but again its down to cost-effectiveness, and the present manufacturers seem to be well aligned.

    Everything is possible, just give me Time.

    The OzInverter man. Normandy France.

    3off Hugh P's 3.7m dia wind turbines, (11 years running).  ... 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (6 years) .... 9kW PV AC coupled using Used/second hand GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with the AC Coupling and OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries. 

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭✭
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭✭

    ^^^ If solid state batteries are so economical then why is Fisker planning on asking $129,000 for a small car? The batteries may be coming in a few years. Not holding my breath on the cars. Musk must be hyper-ventilating with the competition from Blue Origin (far cheaper payloads into space) and solid state batteries.

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • clockmanfranclockmanfran Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019 #5

    Electric car batteries.  I have taken a interest in the Nissan leaf batteries that seem to have a reasonable life and a 10 year history of use, and even better the latest version is designed around  electric power source, and not just petrol/diesel engine out, and electric motor in mentality.

    In Norway the government have been very supportive of electric vehicles.  A  good Renewable energy forum member in Norway for the past 10 years has sort of done a unofficial deal where he recycles the Nissan leaf batteries rather than Nissan dumping/recycling them.

    He reckons that a faulty battery pack has probably 2 cells that are damaged. He splits the cells and rebuilds the Pack with other spares.  He tells me that folk from all over Europe turn up and buy one of his recycled packs and BMS on a unofficial basis.  "Mostly used for Off Grid applications" he says. 

    I asked where was Nissan getting the A4 by 3/4 inch thick cells/batteries made, "Its something to do with Panasonic and they are made in China, but both Panasonic and Nissan are extremely secretive on details."

      

    Everything is possible, just give me Time.

    The OzInverter man. Normandy France.

    3off Hugh P's 3.7m dia wind turbines, (11 years running).  ... 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (6 years) .... 9kW PV AC coupled using Used/second hand GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with the AC Coupling and OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries. 

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭✭

    Think I have seen Panasonic linked with Tesla lithium batteries as well. Thinking that "Tesla lithium batteries" may not leach toxic fumes in a fire? The possible toxicity of lithium battery fires (some are - some are not) is an over riding reason to stay out at this time.

    Lithium batteries are improving at "maybe 8%/Year". That is probably not a game changer for some time. Solid state batteries hold the capacity for changing the game - or so we are being told.

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • clockmanfranclockmanfran Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭✭

    Leaf batteries bit amended.

    My friend in Norway accepts donations for the battery packs and BMS systems, he does not sell them, officially that is not allowed.

    The Leaf battery I like, is the slightly bigger than A4 size, approximately 1/2 inch thick cell. It seems to stand a fair bit of abuse, even that screwdriver driven through it, yikes!.    Don't do that at home folks!

    Everything is possible, just give me Time.

    The OzInverter man. Normandy France.

    3off Hugh P's 3.7m dia wind turbines, (11 years running).  ... 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (6 years) .... 9kW PV AC coupled using Used/second hand GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with the AC Coupling and OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries. 

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭✭

    Replacing a couple bad cells from the battery pack of an electric vehicle sounds like an effective way to achieve low cost solar energy storage. Is that as simple as testing voltage and soldering in replacements as needed?

    Does one need "connections" to obtain older EV battery packs?

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • AmpsterAmpster Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019 #9

    I found some Nissan Leaf modules locally in Northern California via Craigslist. There is another guy in Las Vegas and a seller in Southern California who advertises on Ebay. A couple of years ago I bought a complete pack off of a Craigslist ad.

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭✭

    Did you test each battery individually? How hard to replace are they?

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • AmpsterAmpster Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭✭

    Only the modules, which contain 2P2S batteries. The modules are very easy to replace. I custom made the bus bars out of copper.

  • clockmanfranclockmanfran Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭✭

    No,  This is the Nissan Leaf battery pack. Advertised as about 60kw, but no actual empirical independent data.

    You can plainly see those thin individual cells stacked together. 


    Everything is possible, just give me Time.

    The OzInverter man. Normandy France.

    3off Hugh P's 3.7m dia wind turbines, (11 years running).  ... 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (6 years) .... 9kW PV AC coupled using Used/second hand GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with the AC Coupling and OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries. 

  • clockmanfranclockmanfran Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭✭

    As I can not seem to edit my posts, and even sign out of this forum........ might be my browser is out of date.

    The above battery pack is recent and just found on the Web, but those cells are the ones that have been in European Nissan leaf for the last 11 years or so. They reckon that the new ones above are slightly thinner and more capacity.

    Everything is possible, just give me Time.

    The OzInverter man. Normandy France.

    3off Hugh P's 3.7m dia wind turbines, (11 years running).  ... 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (6 years) .... 9kW PV AC coupled using Used/second hand GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with the AC Coupling and OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries. 

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭✭

    How much are the modules? Where do you find them?

    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • AmpsterAmpster Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019 #15

    The modules varied from $100 to $125.

    I think I mentioned this earlier that I found them by doing searches on Google, EBay & Craigslist.

  • clockmanfranclockmanfran Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭✭

    I think we have crossed wires, regards Nissan Leaf batteries here in Europe. .

    These pouch cells is what I am talking about .  There are 4 per sealed module.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz37WycW-7E

    Everything is possible, just give me Time.

    The OzInverter man. Normandy France.

    3off Hugh P's 3.7m dia wind turbines, (11 years running).  ... 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (6 years) .... 9kW PV AC coupled using Used/second hand GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with the AC Coupling and OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries. 

  • clockmanfranclockmanfran Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭✭

    And a recent vid showing the assembly of those individual pouch cells and the recent slimming down of the cell modules.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcfXiNEfPsM


      

    Everything is possible, just give me Time.

    The OzInverter man. Normandy France.

    3off Hugh P's 3.7m dia wind turbines, (11 years running).  ... 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (6 years) .... 9kW PV AC coupled using Used/second hand GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with the AC Coupling and OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries. 

  • AmpsterAmpster Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2019 #18

    I acquired them as modules and dont have any reason to open them up. I think the form factor has been the same since the beginning. The only difference is some are sardine can shapes but bolt holes and Terminal locations and thread size remain. I have some of both versions.

    The 2019 versions are different but I doubt there are many on the used market. I was responding to @softdown 's query about where to buy used modules. The picture you posted looks different than I remember the pack I purchased in 2016 that was at least 4 years old. Is the one you posted the picture above from the 2019 model?

  • clockmanfranclockmanfran Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭✭

    What I understand is that Nissan have done away with just 4 pouches per sealed module. They can get more pouches in an open  stack module and they reckon they can save weight and increase the size of the battery for the same space to 63kW,

    My friend in Norway would open a old faulty 4 pouch sealed unit, and find the faulty pouch cell and remove it and replace with a good one.    About 8 years ago I believe he was also doing open stacks as he said, "better individual cell cooling and less space taken up by the finished battery". 

    That picture above was from Nissan from a 2018 recent model, but it looks like they are also going the open stacked cell concept.  

    Everything is possible, just give me Time.

    The OzInverter man. Normandy France.

    3off Hugh P's 3.7m dia wind turbines, (11 years running).  ... 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (6 years) .... 9kW PV AC coupled using Used/second hand GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with the AC Coupling and OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries. 

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