No float for 13 days

stmoloud
stmoloud Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭
edited February 2019 in Solar Beginners Corner #1

My charger hasn't reached float for nearly a month (since fridge install).

Although sometimes it is in absorb for up to 495 minutes per day.. At night my discharge voltage reads 12.6 to 12.4 

Should I install more panels or maybe this is OK? 

Thanks  

760W panel array, 4 x 6v 220 ah Crown batteries, Tristar TS-45 PWM controller,  no name 600 PSW inverter. 
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Comments

  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Don't worry too much about not reaching float with a Morningstar TS controller, it's very common to stay in PWM mode never reaching float. Will post a detailed explanation from Morningstar tech support when I find it. Assuming everything is otherwise working fine, don't loose any sleep over this.

    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • stmoloud
    stmoloud Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭

    OK thanks. Being the proverbial newby wouldn't want to rat out or over stress the batteries too much.

    760W panel array, 4 x 6v 220 ah Crown batteries, Tristar TS-45 PWM controller,  no name 600 PSW inverter. 
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2019 #4

    Here is the detailed explanation

    The duty cycle is used to determine when to transition into float. The duty cycle is derived from a square waveform and the percentage of time - out of each complete cycle - when current is allowed to flow. Current is regulated by opening and closing the PV-battery circuit -- the essence of a series charge controller. A 50% duty cycle means that current is flowing, and interrupted for, half of the cycle. Our controllers pulse with a frequency of 300 Hz, so each cycle lasts 1/300th of a second. By varying the duty cycle, we can control the average current going into the battery so that the regulation voltage is maintained but not exceeded. As the battery reaches full charge at a particular voltage, it will require less and less current to maintain that voltage and the duty cycle will decrease. The duty cycle will approach zero %, but will never actually get there because losses and battery self-discharge require at least some current to maintain regulation voltage. A Morningstar PWM controller's float transition algorithm waits for the duty cycle to reach 30% or less before starting a one hour timer. When the timer expires, the controller moves from absorption to float voltage. A 30% duty cycle simply means that 30% of AVAILABLE charging current is allowed to pass. Duty cycle is the best measure we have to determine how deep a battery may be in regulation. Factors affecting the accuracy of this method include: 1. Reduced radiation and current. With less available charge current, the duty cycle will inevitably be higher making the transition to float more difficult; 2. Load on the battery. Loads on the battery drain current from the battery which causes a higher duty cycle. If the load is large enough (greater than the amount of solar current ) it can pull the controller into 100% duty cycle and out of absorption - into bulk charging; 3. Aging batteries. Old batteries tend to absorb more current at regulation, keeping duty cycle high. Sulfation leads to higher internal resistance, and more energy loss in the form of heat, which leads to excessive water loss. 

    A few comments since you edited the first post, the refrigerator is a load that may prevent the controller from reaching float, the array may be marginal, there is no remote temperature sensor to compensate for cold/warm batteries, well worth having.

    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • stmoloud
    stmoloud Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭
    edited February 2019 #5

    Thanks The array probably does need to be doubled. Most days I am pulling over 100 Ah so don't have much to spare for cloudy / rainy days

    Yes RTS is on the to buy soon list.

    760W panel array, 4 x 6v 220 ah Crown batteries, Tristar TS-45 PWM controller,  no name 600 PSW inverter. 
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2019 #6

    Based on daily Ah I would agree double array capacity would be about right, if the batteries are close to new, double their capacity if possible, your demand is about equal to mine, I found 260Ah of battery, my first, was not sufficient for a no generator system. See signature below.

    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • stmoloud
    stmoloud Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭
    edited February 2019 #7

    Given good weather it could be maintained as such but is marginal as you say. I am in Thailand for 6 months during our Autumn / Winter so will probably delay to see how that works out.

    Yes, I am the original cheap charlie. 😀 I fly all the way to Thailand for happy hour.

    760W panel array, 4 x 6v 220 ah Crown batteries, Tristar TS-45 PWM controller,  no name 600 PSW inverter. 
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭



    That would make me even cheaper I guess, I'm in Thailand full time😎

    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • stmoloud
    stmoloud Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭

    Lucky man. I do wish I had 60k baht per month for retirement visa.

    Funny that, when I was teaching over there 30k baht got me by quite sufficiently.

    760W panel array, 4 x 6v 220 ah Crown batteries, Tristar TS-45 PWM controller,  no name 600 PSW inverter.