Need some 200W monocrystalline panels?

OldMan
OldMan Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
edited January 2019 in Caravan, Recreational Vehicle, and Marine Power Systems #1
I have NO connection with the seller, but everyone wants to do it on the cheap (except me), so at $50 each, you'll have a hard time beating that price.

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    I have bought used panels from that seller. In better times, I would consider a purchase. It is a bit over 1000 miles away and possibly not the best time of year. Went to the SF area four times last year! Truck is getting a wee tired.

    Wonder what the story is.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • OldMan
    OldMan Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    #3
    softdown said:
    I have bought used panels from that seller. In better times, I would consider a purchase. It is a bit over 1000 miles away and possibly not the best time of year. Went to the SF area four times last year! Truck is getting a wee tired.

    Wonder what the story is.
    Used panels. Probably from a removed home system. 200W for $50 seems like a deal for someone harvesting smaller KWH.
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    OldMan said:
    softdown said:
    I have bought used panels from that seller. In better times, I would consider a purchase. It is a bit over 1000 miles away and possibly not the best time of year. Went to the SF area four times last year! Truck is getting a wee tired.

    Wonder what the story is.
    Used panels. Probably from a removed home system. 200W for $50 seems like a deal for someone harvesting smaller KWH.
    If you "overheard" the number of available panels, I still have an "open ear". 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Keep in mind, these higher voltage panels and aren't too string configuration friendly unless you are using a high voltage MPPT controller.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Yep, due to very cold weather I was warned by Outback to only do two panels (serial) at a time. That with an MPPT 80 charge controller. I could have gotten way with three panels until the day I did not get away with it. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • OldMan
    OldMan Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019 #7
    softdown said:
    OldMan said:
    softdown said:
    I have bought used panels from that seller. In better times, I would consider a purchase. It is a bit over 1000 miles away and possibly not the best time of year. Went to the SF area four times last year! Truck is getting a wee tired.

    Wonder what the story is.
    Used panels. Probably from a removed home system. 200W for $50 seems like a deal for someone harvesting smaller KWH.
    If you "overheard" the number of available panels, I still have an "open ear".
     Why don't you call or email them and ask for yourself? I have an email in to them, but you can't make a phone call yourself?

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    OldMan said:
    softdown said:
    OldMan said:
    softdown said:
    I have bought used panels from that seller. In better times, I would consider a purchase. It is a bit over 1000 miles away and possibly not the best time of year. Went to the SF area four times last year! Truck is getting a wee tired.

    Wonder what the story is.
    Used panels. Probably from a removed home system. 200W for $50 seems like a deal for someone harvesting smaller KWH.
    If you "overheard" the number of available panels, I still have an "open ear".
     Why don't you call or email them and ask for yourself? I have an email in to them, but you can't make a phone call yourself?

    You are awfully cantankerous. This is not the first time. I found the time to scoot you off to the ignore list. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • OldMan
    OldMan Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019 #9
    softdown said:
    You are awfully cantankerous. This is not the first time. I found the time to scoot you off to the ignore list. 
    Ya know what? I am. I do not apologize. PM sent on the rest.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #10
    Everyone had their say...

    On topic please.

    Bill "moderator" B.
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • OldMan
    OldMan Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    #11
    littleharbor2 said:
    Keep in mind, these higher voltage panels and aren't too string configuration friendly unless you are using a high voltage MPPT controller.
    That's true but I've anticipated that need and bought the MPPT. Fangpusun Flexmax 80! (Flame-retardant suit has been donned)
    I told myself because long ago, when I owned and flew my own aircraft (in better days, like SoftDown mention earlier) the big question was always: "WTF is your life worth?," when I squawked about spending money (I did the work). There's only one correct answer. Spend the money!
    It's the same (for me) for an RV system. I know what I want and MPPT is the only type that will get me there. You probably won't approve of my inverter (it's not Victron or Morningstar) but that's ok.
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  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #12
    OldMan said:
    littleharbor2 said:
    Keep in mind, these higher voltage panels and aren't too string configuration friendly unless you are using a high voltage MPPT controller.
    That's true but I've anticipated that need and bought the MPPT. Fangpusun Flexmax 80! (Flame-retardant suit has been donned)
    I told myself because long ago, when I owned and flew my own aircraft (in better days, like SoftDown mention earlier) the big question was always: "WTF is your life worth?," when I squawked about spending money (I did the work). There's only one correct answer. Spend the money!
    It's the same (for me) for an RV system. I know what I want and MPPT is the only type that will get me there. You probably won't approve of my inverter (it's not Victron or Morningstar) but that's ok.
    Apparently you miss-understood my point. Maybe I should have used bold text when I said "high voltage charge controller".
    Sounds like you've got it all figured out though so I'll step out.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #13
    Just to be clear... There is a "gray" zone for using certain solar panels with certain (many) MPPT controllers on specific voltage battery banks...

    The general problem is that any panel with ~>50 volts to <72 volts Vmp (really less than 80 volts) with 48 volt battery bank can be an issue with "typical" mid-voltage MPPT charge controllers (those with a maximum Vpanel input voltage of 140-150 VDC in cold climates).

    A 48 volt battery bank needs a >~72 volt Vmp array to work with an MPPT controller charging a 48 volt battery bank (which can charge upwards of ~60+VDC).

    With these Sanyo panels that have Vmp~54.8 volts... A single panel is too low of voltage to charge a 48 volt battery bank... And two panels in series 2x54.8v=109.6 volts Vmp-std. That voltage, in a very cold climate (subfreezing or below) can give a 2xVoc-cold that is over the 140-150 VDC maximum panel input voltage.

    With 12 volt and 24 volt battery banks, the Vmp-array of >40 volts (for 24 volt batteries; >20 volts for 12 volt battery banks), there is not usually a problem (unless you want a higher Vmp-array voltage because you have a long distance from array to charge controller+battery bank).

    Also, if you are on a tropical island that never gets that cold, Voc-cold is not an issue with 2x panels in series.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Guy makes a post about panels for sale then gets uppity when asked if he might know how many panels for sale. Bit unique.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #15
    It is what it is...

    Craig's is well known. People can find some pretty good deals (and sometimes, some not so great deals).

    We do not run a buy/sell/trade forum here. Just something I do not have the time/energy/interest in... Plus I have no way of vetting posts or the people involved (heck, I never have used EBay either).

    -Bill "moderator" B.
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #16
    softdown said:
    Guy makes a post about panels for sale then gets uppity when asked if he might know how many panels for sale. Bit unique.
    Yes, He's indeed an odd bird.  And I'm not referring to Craigslist sellers here.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
    BB. said:
    It is what it is...

    Craig's is well known. People can find some pretty good deals (and sometimes, some not so great deals).

    We do not run a buy/sell/trade forum here. Just something I do not have the time/energy/interest in... Plus I have no way of vetting posts or the people involved (heck, I never have used EBay either).

    -Bill "moderator" B.
    You do a great job moderating this board - bit lenient at times which is often preferable to the iron hand. I remember the days when you would crunch a plethora of numbers for almost any question. Bit more laid back now it seems.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #18
    I know the math/numbers can be a bit much... But modeling requirements and system performance on paper sets expectations before spending the money. And it is better than me just passing down a system design from "on high" because I said so. I am not a "solar expert"--Just using standard engineering practices to help get the needed results.

    I think there is enough history/examples out there that I don't need to do as much "math" as I used to do... And I did cut out the details I used to do... Just list them as "rules of thumbs" and for the rare person that wants to know the "why" for the rules of thumbs, discuss those then.

    Regarding moderation. I try for a friendly/professional forum. And set that tone by example.

    You would be very surprised at how little actual moderation I do (maybe not... :* ). You folks see pretty much everything (I don't hide behind the "Moderator is God" style). Mostly just spam control (and the present forum software does a very good job of stopping that from even the first spam post).

    We are all volunteering our time and knowledge here. And mostly adults (in terms of age) and let people have their say. I just try to stop the spiraling into a massive thread wreck.

    There are many ways that can address a set of problems and issues. I am always learning here--And having multiple people help answer questions give different ideas and pick up on missing information/different perspectives.

    Take care,
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
    Crunching numbers is inarguably worthwhile. Some of us like the "seat of the pants" feel at times. Interesting that the fabled SR-71 spy plane was mostly done by Kelly Johnson using a slide rule. Still the fastest plane ever widely used and created in the early 60's. 

    I believe that number crunching and instincts are both vital parts of the final, and preferred, equation. This board has a number of engineering types and solar power does readily lend itself to equations. Though challenges present when quality equipment is only offered in very substantial increments.  For example, when considering Outback off-grid inverters, one has a choice between inverters offering about 1500 watts or inverters offering about 3000 watts. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #20
    Slide rules are great... You can get close to 3 digit accuracy with even the cheaper models. Most of the work is setting up the equations.

    And they give you a much better "feeling" for the magnitude of the numbers.

    In some engineering classes, they would give near 100% scores for answers that had the correct equations but where wrong because the student fat finger a number in the calculator.

    At my high school, I was in the last class that used slide rules for chemistry (~1972 or so).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #21
    Thinking you graduated when ~16? Possible? 

    Slide rules competing with calculators? Sure thing. I was thinking more of the ability to still compete with todays computers. The SR-71 was analyzed with a modern computer. Result? No real changes whatsoever.

    I'm not convinced we could still reliably send people to the moon and back. Glitches, "witchcraft", bugs, sensitive electronics, incompatibility, viruses, PC issues, regulations, unproven technology etc. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #22
    Nope--18. Class of 1974.

    4 function calculators (with a memory button) were >$100 or so at that time...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭✭
    #23
    I have a TI-59 with printer somewhere around here. Applied for a Masters in PE from Texas A&M. My oilman brother offered to pay and my math professor encouraged me to attend the Colorado School of Mines for a BS. Never enjoyed the homework etc. Besides, my intuitive guesses are usually so close that I "learned" not to bother with the calculator. 

    Need an answer? I got one right here. Accuracy? "Unverified"
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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  • OldMan
    OldMan Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019 #24
    littleharbor2 said:Apparently you miss-understood my point. Maybe I should have used bold text when I said "high voltage charge controller".
    Sounds like you've got it all figured out though so I'll step out.
    No indeedy, I did not "miss-understand" (sic) anything. I always was going to use one of them new-fangled MPPT controllers in my system, never bothered to learn about anything else. Some who upgrade their systems, upgrade everything at once. With all the money some will save acquiring those panels at $50 a pop, they'll be able to afford one of them fancy, high-voltage controllers. SOME will do their own f-n dirty work.
    Ya just never know...

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  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #25
    You may have missed these as well as my point about high voltage charge controllers. probably because these haven't been ripped off by your favorite knock off mfg. yet  Brick brick

    https://www.solar-electric.com/xaxwmp80amp6.html

    https://www.solar-electric.com/morningstar-ts-mppt-600v-48-solar-charge-controller.html

    https://www.solar-electric.com/outback-power-fm100-300vdc-charge-controller.html




    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

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  • OldMan
    OldMan Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    #26
    BB. said:
    Nope--18. Class of 1974.

    4 function calculators (with a memory button) were >$100 or so at that time...

    -Bill
    Class of '72. In the first group of 18-year-olds to vote. Been a straight democratic voter since then.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #27
    Sounds like we probably cancel each others votes.  :)

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • OldMan
    OldMan Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    #28
    BB. said:
    Sounds like we probably cancel each others votes.  :)

    -Bill
    That's odd, living in the City. Color me baffled. :) (mid peninsula, here)
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #29
    San Mateo CA (mid-peninsula too) myself (grew up in Pacifica).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • OldMan
    OldMan Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    #30
    I grew up in the City...Hunter's Point. :o
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