Adding wind turbine to PV array

maric
maric Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Just found this forum we're completely off grid and running on solar power, it's a 48v system which is great during the summer (we're in southern Spain), but not so great in the winter as there's little sun and a LOT of wind. I was thinking about adding a wind turbine to the system, as the prices are so low now. We have a hybrid MPPT inverter charger but from what I've read on this forum so far, I need a separate charge controller connected to the battery bank for the turbine? If so, would pwm be OK next to a mppt? In our climate the sun and wind are quite separate so they shouldn't clash much. To give a bit more info, we typically get around 800w from the solar array and the turbine I'm looking at is also 800w max power. Thanks in advance
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    I don't think there would be a problem with the 2 charge controllers on 1 battery bank. 
    I don't believe we have a strong person on wind who regularly participates currently.
    If you search our past threads we had a guy named Chris Olsen(?) who was very strong on wind and you might find some good advice.

    In general small wind is difficult, it requires more maintenance and also requires a dump load, usually a heater of some sort water or air since while spinning they will produce power that needs to go somewhere. Unlike solar which can just be turned off. If you are in a windy area it can work nicely.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,623 admin
    #3
    Just out of curiosity, where in Spain... For example, looking up Valencia and Marbella Spain, fixed array:

    http://www.solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-irradiance.html

    Valencia
    Average Solar Insolation figures

    Measured in kWh/m2/day onto a solar panel set at a 50° angle:
    (For best year-round performance)

    JanFebMarAprMayJun
    3.95
         		4.47
         		5.29
         		5.63
         		5.58
         		5.90
     
    JulAugSepOctNovDec
    6.29
         		6.09
         		5.38
         		4.62
         		3.76
     
    3.38
     

    Marbella
    Average Solar Insolation figures

    Measured in kWh/m2/day onto a solar panel set at a 54° angle:
    (For best year-round performance)

    JanFebMarAprMayJun
    3.49
         		4.16
         		5.28
         		5.67
         		5.86
         		6.54
     
    JulAugSepOctNovDec
    6.90
         		6.75
         		5.88
         		4.49
         		3.54
         		3.03
     
    Even in December, 3 hours of sun per day is not bad...

    If you were to add 800-1,600 Watts of solar panels--How would that compare to the cost for adding wind power (typically, the tower and support hardware costs way more than the turbine itself--Add the need to service that turbine every 1 year or so--rent truck, or setup a tilt tower). Towers should be (typically) >=10 meter tall (33 feet) and above nearby trees/homes (30 meter towers are closer to ideal--But hard to justify costs).

    If you are not a do it yourself type person (winch, tractor, boom truck), the support issues/costs are not trivial.

    Has anyone installed a wind system near you? Can you get their monthly energy production numbers for 1+ year period? Most small turbine installations produce very little energy over time, and seem to fail/fall into disuse after a year to two.

    I am not a big fan of wind...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,905 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
    I do have alot of previous experience with wind gens and very few people ever have the talent for the maintenance of going up high on a tower where useful energy is. 

    The same with roofs for solar offgrid.

    Not a Fan as you say Bill.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • 706jim
    706jim Solar Expert Posts: 520 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    One thing seldom mentioned with small wind generators is their probable output over time. Those showing, say, 400 watts can only do that with 40mph wind speed which is not that common. And then only when airflow is unobstructed as when the turbine is quite high up. Output at a more realistic 15-20 mph is a LOT less. Plus anything mechanical is prone to wear, corrosion and vibration. I'd get more solar. Also just noticed Dave's comments about solar on roofs. Just had mine re shingled and the panels are now ground mounted.
    Island cottage solar system with appriximately 2500 watts of panels, 1kw facing southeast 1.3kw facing southwest 170watt ancient Arco's facing due south. All panels in parallel for a 24 volt system. Trace DR1524 MSW inverter which has performed flawlessly since 1994. Outback Flexmax 80 MPPT charge controller four 467A-h AGM batteries. Insignia 11.5 cubic foot electric fridge 1/4hp GSW piston pump. My 31st year.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,623 admin
    #6
    I will post one link here to a 10 year old article about some open field tests of lots of (then current) small wind turbines:

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/3638/small-windpower-a-scam-survey-says-so/p1

    If you want more links, look at this post here (from our FAQ like page):

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/comment/77299#Comment_77299

    Links to both positive and negative information about wind...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,623 admin
    #7
    Here is some data from a relatively good size Skystream in a windy lakeside location (Lake Erie)...

    Note no original link available... Had to recover from copy on forum. These are kWH per month numbers:


    JAN
    FEB
    MAR
    APR
    MAY
    JUN
    JUL
    AUG
    SEP
    OCT
    NOV
    DEC
    Total
    2007
    n/a
    n/a
    n/a
    n/a
    n/a
    n/a
    n/a
    n/a
    n/a
    175
    225
    0*
    400
    2008
    98*
    292
    		308
    		246
    		228
    		153
    		9284
    		97164
    		2464722,480
    2009
    		265348244371182869084250100194131*2,345
    2010
    		101130










    * December, 2007 - Skystream shut down from software problem with cold and would not restart.

    * January, 2008 - Skystream down until the 27th. Produce 98kWh in the 5 days remaining in the month.

    * December, 2009 - Skystream shut down several times and would not restart on it's own, production very low for wind speeds.

    * January, 2010 - Production very low for wind speeds.

    * February, 2010 - Production very low for wind speeds.

    Skystreams seem to miss the "reliability" target... But when they worked, they did harvest pretty well.

    This is about the only "Long Term" data I have ever found for a small wind turbine installation... I just do not ever see/find any other data from any other source that even near 1-2+ years in length.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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