PV System Help Please

System
System Posts: 2,511 admin
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Hello new to forum & to solar. I have a real problem I need to move a lot of water in a shot period of time.
Been looking fore a DC pump put can not find one that will handle the volume. I need to move 150 gallons
A minute continuous with a 30 foot head. Have fond a AC pump that will do the job. Pump spec’s are as follows Gould 4BF1H1KO 115/208-230 V34/17 A Single Phase centrifugal pump. Power rating 3 horse power. Voltage at 60 HZ 115/208-230 V 34 volts single phase. Vary expansive pump and do not
even what to know the power bill. I would like to take this piece of equipment off grid if possible. We
Live in northern Mich. According to PV Mich. I can expect 2.5 hours of optimal sun a day with a week of
Low sun leaves not uncommon. Can one of you good people help me design a PV system that will meet are needs. Solar panels , batteries & converter. Please include the formulas used so that maybe I can under stand the math. Recommended manufacture and links to site’s would be vary helpful.

Thank you in advance
outsidethebox
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Comments

  • sawmill
    sawmill Solar Expert Posts: 93 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: PV System Help Please

    I would be curious of why you need to move 216000 gallons of water every 24 hours.
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #3
    Re: PV System Help Please

    A Circulating hydro system
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: PV System Help Please

    You can forget solar ...

    3hp is about 6kWr when pump efficiencys are taken into concideration ..

    with only 2.5hr Sun, you would need a 100kW array, so unless your ready to fork over 7 figures for your solar and batterys there is no point to even think one second more on this approach.

    Nothing is cheaper than grid power ... if your not happy with the power bill you might concider evaluating your application and how to make better use of the resources
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #5
    Re: PV System Help Please

    Thank you for the time
    Admin Please delete thred
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: PV System Help Please

    That's about 4KW nameplate power, not counting startup surge, which will easily be double. This looks like it will need a 7 or 8 KW generator to manage it. Or, you could just get a gas power water pump.

    How short of a period do will this run for, 10 minutes, 90 minutes ? for "A Circulating hydro system" sort of implies you are trying to generate electricity ? Is this a hydronic heating system ? for household heating, you don't need anywhere near this flow rate, except in a nuclear plant or a log flume ride.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #7
    Re: PV System Help Please

    Yes to generating electric Have a 10,000 gallon tank with a 30 ft. of head Looking at a turbine that will produce 12000 watts 440 volts wish to pump water from tank below the turbine to tank on hill. if I can get the water to the large tank economically. could set flot so pump turns off not vary good with math so takes a lot of time to do flow rates Then sell to the grid
    Outsidethebox
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: PV System Help Please

    Sounds like Perpetual motion :roll:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

    It will cost more to fill your water tank ( that provides the water for the hydro ) than the hydro will produce as energy that you wish to sell to the grid.


    If your looking to sell power, you can go with straight gridtie solar inverters, so you have solar at 30-40 cents a watt your selling back to the grid for a dime

    With state incentives and or attractive sell back rates, it can have break even in 5-10 years otherwise its a 40+ year payback, not including maintance and inveter replacements over the time period
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  • GreenerPower
    GreenerPower Solar Expert Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: PV System Help Please
    outsidethebox wrote: »
    Yes to generating electric Have a 10,000 gallon tank with a 30 ft. of head Looking at a turbine that will produce 12000 watts 440 volts wish to pump water from tank below the turbine to tank on hill. if I can get the water to the large tank economically. could set flot so pump turns off not vary good with math so takes a lot of time to do flow rates Then sell to the grid
    Outsidethebox
    Interesting thread. If you are generating power from natural rain, spring, creek water, that works. Pumping water up to get it fall down to generate power, there are many energy loss (efficiency) along the chain. What you get out (power to sell) is always less than what you put in (power to run the pump). Are you thinking of a "perpetual machine" ? Pump just to "kick start" the cycle ? so that the hydro power can power the pump itself afterwards.
    GP
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #10
    Re: PV System Help Please

    Remember closed system Could fill with rain water put thought I would incur the cost of filling from a well the first time after that vary little loss do to evaporation or leaks. Is it possible to siphon off the power need to run the pump before sending to the grid.The advantage is 10,000 gallons of head presser at 30 feet

    Vern
    outsidethebox
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  • sawmill
    sawmill Solar Expert Posts: 93 ✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: PV System Help Please

    You might want to check on your potential hydro by plugging in this formula
    gross headXflow(cubic ft per second)X.55(system efficienty)X .085 ( the constant when using feet.

    System efficienty will be between 40% & 70%. It is affected by length and size of penstock, the efficienty of the turbine, gauge and length of wire. .55 is in the middle.
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #12
    Re: PV System Help Please

    Hummm, sounds like a Perpetual Motion settup. When I was a kid, there was an old guy who tried the same thing with compressed air. Worked great each time he started it and would run great for about half an hour, by then all the pre-stored energy was used up overcoming efficiency losses. Surplus energy output? None.
    Good luck
    Wayne
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: PV System Help Please

    Where do I sign up to buy one?
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