Sizing solar panels: 1600W consumption and battery bank recharge
Tmp4000
Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭✭
Can you guys verify if my math makes sense ?
Battery Bank Calculation
======================
Energy needed: 1600W * 24hrs = 38,400Wh -> Apply efficiencies --> 38,400Wh/(0.92*0.93) = 44,881Wh
Using a DoD of 70%: and 48V Bank: 44,881Wh/48V = 936Ah -->936 Ah / 0.7 = 1336 Ah of battery bank needed
So from this 1336Ah battery bank I will draw 936 Ah every day.
Solar Panels Needed (for recharging + equipment usage)
================================================
To Recharge Batteries during the peak 6 hour windows:
Amount of battery energy needed to be replaced: 936 Ah that need to be replaced --> 936 Ah * 48V = 44,928Wh of energy needed
If using 228W panels (actually 315W): 228W*6h =1368Wh per panel --> 44,928Wh/1365Wh = 33 panels
So I need 33 panels to recharge my battery bank in 6 hours of full sunlight
However, I would also like to use the solar panels to power the 1600W equipment WHILE also recharging batteries:
So while the Sun shines for 6 hours, my equipment will draw: 1600W*6hrs = 9600Wh of energy
The # of panels needed: 9600Wh/ (228W*6h) = 8 panels
TOTAL Panels the System will need:
=================================================
33 Panels to recharge batteries + 8 panel to power the equipment during sunshine = 41 panels
Am I doing this correctly ?
What I don't understand is what happens to the solar energy once the battery bank is charged. Will the controller - inverter send solar power straight into the inverter/appliances bypassing the battery bank ? That doesn't make sense...since the Inverter is connected to the battery bank, not to the panels.
What I was thinking is that once the battery bank is charged, can the power from from the solar panels goes straight into the Inverter ? However, obviously the inverter is connected to the batteries. So once the batteries are charged and there is a load on the inverter, the current draw will come from the panels through the battery bank and discharge the battery bank again, correct ?
Is there a way to draw power straight from the panels only once the battery bank is charged ?
- I am planning on having a system that will consume 1600W non-stop, all day. The peak sun hours will be 6 hours (an average daily insolation of 6 kWh/m^2).
- The panels that I will use have a 315W output, but the actual NOCT output is 228W.
- The inverter efficiency is about 92%, miscellaneous 93%
- Only have budget for one day of autonomy/downtime
Battery Bank Calculation
======================
Energy needed: 1600W * 24hrs = 38,400Wh -> Apply efficiencies --> 38,400Wh/(0.92*0.93) = 44,881Wh
Using a DoD of 70%: and 48V Bank: 44,881Wh/48V = 936Ah -->936 Ah / 0.7 = 1336 Ah of battery bank needed
So from this 1336Ah battery bank I will draw 936 Ah every day.
Solar Panels Needed (for recharging + equipment usage)
================================================
To Recharge Batteries during the peak 6 hour windows:
Amount of battery energy needed to be replaced: 936 Ah that need to be replaced --> 936 Ah * 48V = 44,928Wh of energy needed
If using 228W panels (actually 315W): 228W*6h =1368Wh per panel --> 44,928Wh/1365Wh = 33 panels
So I need 33 panels to recharge my battery bank in 6 hours of full sunlight
However, I would also like to use the solar panels to power the 1600W equipment WHILE also recharging batteries:
So while the Sun shines for 6 hours, my equipment will draw: 1600W*6hrs = 9600Wh of energy
The # of panels needed: 9600Wh/ (228W*6h) = 8 panels
TOTAL Panels the System will need:
=================================================
33 Panels to recharge batteries + 8 panel to power the equipment during sunshine = 41 panels
Am I doing this correctly ?
What I don't understand is what happens to the solar energy once the battery bank is charged. Will the controller - inverter send solar power straight into the inverter/appliances bypassing the battery bank ? That doesn't make sense...since the Inverter is connected to the battery bank, not to the panels.
What I was thinking is that once the battery bank is charged, can the power from from the solar panels goes straight into the Inverter ? However, obviously the inverter is connected to the batteries. So once the batteries are charged and there is a load on the inverter, the current draw will come from the panels through the battery bank and discharge the battery bank again, correct ?
Is there a way to draw power straight from the panels only once the battery bank is charged ?
Comments
-
One derating factor that you may have missed... 80% flooded cell battery efficiency or 90%+ AGM battery efficiency.
There is also one other derating factor that you could plug in--That is the ~95% charge controller efficiency. You used NOCT which is ~72% for that panel--I usually use 77% derating for panels+controller--So you are already a bit more "conservative" that I normally use. However, if your system is in a very hot climate and installed near sea level/humid area--That 72% derating (NOCT) + another 95% derating (controller) may be needed.- 33 panels * 1/0.90 AGM battery derating * 1/0.95 MPPT charge controller derating = 39 panels
- 8 panels * 1/0.95 controller derate = 8.4 panels -- Not much different
I still believe the 6 hours of sun per day for a fixed array is a bit optimistic for most regions of the world except for high deserts. You cold add tracking, or more panels, or split your array with 1/2 the array tiled east and the other 1/2 tilted west (virtual tracking--You would need a somewhat larger array for same output and "more charging hours per day", but (possibly) cheaper than mounting your 1/3rd fewer panels on full two axis array--) or you could go with "real" 2-axis tracking. Just to give you an idea of how much that could affect your output, using PV Watts for KITALE, KENYA, flat array vs a 2-axis tracking:
http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php
Flat array (zero degree tilt)Month Solar Radiation ( kWh / m2 / day )January 5.81 February 6.19 March 5.77 April 5.16 May 5.18 June 4.89 July 4.87 August 5.20 September 5.63 October 5.55 November 5.26 December 5.57 Annual 5.42
2-axis tracking:Month Solar Radiation ( kWh / m2 / day )January 8.09 February 8.52 March 7.30 April 6.31 May 6.64 June 6.38 July 6.08 August 6.51 September 7.10 October 6.95 November 6.75 December 7.68 Annual 7.03
The above is based on "real data" for an equatorial system. Could do some more work with a spread sheet of the hourly data, split east/west array, and see how many hours of "useful" sun you can get.
At this point, solar panel are the "cheap part" of your system (vs battery bank). I would try to error on the "larger array" side. That will give you more flexibility and a "happier" battery bank. Will also give you some extra capacity in case of failures (failed panel, battery cell/bank capacity issues, scientists want "more power").
-Bill
Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset -
The battery system will probably be Lithium Iron LiFePO4 (i.e. like the one from Iron Edison). We might be able to find more funds for the battery bank type (using LiFePO4 instead of wet traditional batteries) if I can convince the right people. We will be located about 1 degree North of the Equator. The panels will stay flat on a makeshift roof, no tracking.
-
If you can swing LiFePO4 batteries--That would be great. Are you looking at a Battery Management System for the LFPO batteries? Charge controller needs to have zero temperature compensation and programmed for max voltage. You also need min-voltage power disconnect/shutdown (or similar) to prevent ruining your bank.
Will the battery/power system be in a separate building? Or at least a sealed off room from the rest of the equipment. Battery (and genset) fires are not common, but reducing your exposure to fire/smoke for expensive equipment is not a bad thing.
Can you gives us a Longitude as well? That can tell us a whole bunch more about the weather altitude/etc.
If this is a long way off (year or more)--Can you get a weather station + solar energy for logging out there? Or even a USB logger and a solar cell would tell you a lot
http://www.davisnet.com
https://www.dataq.com/resources/pdfs/datasheets/el-data-logger.pdf
https://www.lascarelectronics.com/easylog-data-logger-el-usb-4/
$80+small solar panel (a "shorted solar panel", i.e., measuring current will give you solar radiation within ~5%-10% accuracy or so).. 1 year battery life, 22 months of logging with 30 minute sample.
Whole thing the size of your hand (or smaller).
-Bill
You could even build a small scale model of your system and install it out there--And log/monitor the results. A nice/small MPPT charge controller and a couple hundred watts of panels--Plus some sort of programmable load on the battery to simulate your proposed profile.
Morningstar SunSaver 15 Amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller ($245)
-BB
Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset -
BB. said:If you can swing LiFePO4 batteries--That would be great. Are you looking at a Battery Management System for the LFPO batteries? Charge controller needs to have zero temperature compensation and programmed for max voltage. You also need min-voltage power disconnect/shutdown (or similar) to prevent ruining your bank.
Will the battery/power system be in a separate building? Or at least a sealed off room from the rest of the equipment. Battery (and genset) fires are not common, but reducing your exposure to fire/smoke for expensive equipment is not a bad thing.
Can you gives us a Longitude as well? That can tell us a whole bunch more about the weather altitude/etc.
If this is a long way off (year or more)--Can you get a weather station + solar energy for logging out there? Or even a USB logger and a solar cell would tell you a lot
http://www.davisnet.com
https://www.dataq.com/resources/pdfs/datasheets/el-data-logger.pdf
https://www.lascarelectronics.com/easylog-data-logger-el-usb-4/
$80+small solar panel (a "shorted solar panel", i.e., measuring current will give you solar radiation within ~5%-10% accuracy or so).. 1 year battery life, 22 months of logging with 30 minute sample.
Whole thing the size of your hand (or smaller).
-Bill
You could even build a small scale model of your system and install it out there--And log/monitor the results. A nice/small MPPT charge controller and a couple hundred watts of panels--Plus some sort of programmable load on the battery to simulate your proposed profile.
Morningstar SunSaver 15 Amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller ($245)
-BB
The location is extremely remote. It will take a few planes and then several hours of freight boat to get to on location. We will have unloading help with shipping docks. We will use several 8' x 20' shipping containers: one will house our equipment and the other will house the solar system w/battery banks. Looking if maybe we can get a third one. Each containers will be cooled by a 5000 Btu/h air conditioner. The cooling system will have its own solar electrical system and the rest will have its own.
We are a small group of scientists/engineers that have this project coming up soon. We didn't work with such a large solar electrical system, so we are looking for any secondary assistance/recommendation we can find. -
You will want your loads to shut down. Not the battery bank (would require manual intervention to recharge). Over and under voltage can immediately ruin LFPO cells.
Our host, NAWS, (and other companies) can provide design support and various levels of preconfigured systems.
Also, there are "epanels" that are prewired for various charge controllers and inverters.
You will also find a number of discussions on sailing and RV forums about LiFePO4 batteries too.
- BillNear San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset -
Be sure you are talking about Lithium batteries when you are conferring with Iron Edison! I did a double take as I didn't know they did Lithium only knew about Nickel-Iron batteries (which have an even worse charging profile!).BB. said:.... You used NOCT which is ~72% for that panel--I usually use 77% derating for panels+controller--So you are already a bit more "conservative" that I normally use. However, if your system is in a very hot climate and installed near sea level/humid area--That 72% derating (NOCT) + another 95% derating (controller) may be needed....
Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites, Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
- Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
Categories
- All Categories
- 222 Forum & Website
- 130 Solar Forum News and Announcements
- 1.3K Solar News, Reviews, & Product Announcements
- 192 Solar Information links & sources, event announcements
- 888 Solar Product Reviews & Opinions
- 254 Solar Skeptics, Hype, & Scams Corner
- 22.4K Solar Electric Power, Wind Power & Balance of System
- 3.5K General Solar Power Topics
- 6.7K Solar Beginners Corner
- 1K PV Installers Forum - NEC, Wiring, Installation
- 2K Advanced Solar Electric Technical Forum
- 5.5K Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems
- 426 Caravan, Recreational Vehicle, and Marine Power Systems
- 1.1K Grid Tie and Grid Interactive Systems
- 651 Solar Water Pumping
- 815 Wind Power Generation
- 624 Energy Use & Conservation
- 611 Discussion Forums/Café
- 304 In the Weeds--Member's Choice
- 75 Construction
- 124 New Battery Technologies
- 108 Old Battery Tech Discussions
- 3.8K Solar News - Automatic Feed
- 3.8K Solar Energy News RSS Feed