Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,981 admin
From New York Times December 18, 2007:
SAN JOSE, Calif. — Nanosolar, a heavily financed Silicon Valley start-up whose backers include Google’s co-founders, plans to announce Tuesday that it has begun selling its innovative solar panels, which are made using a technique that is being held out as the future of solar power manufacturing. The company, which has raised $150 million and built a 200,000-square-foot factory here, is developing a new manufacturing process that “prints” photovoltaic material on aluminum backing, a process the company says will reduce the manufacturing cost of the basic photovoltaic module by more than 80 percent.

Nanosolar, which recently hired a top manufacturing executive from I.B.M., said that it had orders for its first 18 months of manufacturing capacity. The photovoltaic panels will be made in Silicon Valley and in a second plant in Germany.
...
Nanosolar’s founder and chief executive, Martin Roscheisen, claims to be the first solar panel manufacturer to be able to profitably sell solar panels for less than $1 a watt. That is the price at which solar energy becomes less expensive than coal.

“With a $1-per-watt panel,” he said, “it is possible to build $2-per-watt systems.”

According to the Energy Department, building a new coal plant costs about $2.1 a watt, plus the cost of fuel and emissions, he said.

The first Nanosolar panels are destined for a one-megawatt solar plant to be installed in Germany on a former landfill owned by a waste management company...
Real???

-Bill
Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
«1

Comments

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    we could hope, but i wouldn't hold my breath. even if they succeeded i would wonder about pv life and other general performance factors. if that metal be steel then can we look forward to replacing the pvs every 5 years just like the cars. yea, you could probably sqeak a few more years i would guess before the rust takes place. if this is the case it would make them more expensive overall due to installation costs of having to install more often and pv prices themselves would about break even.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    I don't know, I think this is really exciting.

    A dollar a watt is under the usual estimates for years from now.

    Not everyone is going to live long enough to make the length of life a real issue.

    If someone can't afford to get it in the first place, then it doesn't matter if it last fifty years or a hundred. For them, it's zero either way.

    I'm so stoked!

    Now maybe lots of people will tell the mean power companies good bye. :)

    That would sure change the behavior of the power companies, hopefully.

    Whew! I'm so excited.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    now somebody somewhere is not saying rightly as here is a link i had found to a popular science article.
    http://www.precaution.org/lib/07/prn_nanosolar.071115.htm
    "Nanosolar's cells use no silicon, and the company's manufacturing process allows it to create cells that are as efficient as most commercial cells for as little as 30 cents a watt."
    it's getting deep around here. time to break out the row boats to get through the sea of bull.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels
    niel wrote: »
    now somebody somewhere is not saying rightly as here is a link i had found to a popular science article.
    http://www.precaution.org/lib/07/prn_nanosolar.071115.htm
    "Nanosolar's cells use no silicon, and the company's manufacturing process allows it to create cells that are as efficient as most commercial cells for as little as 30 cents a watt."
    it's getting deep around here. time to break out the row boats to get through the sea of bull.

    Wow...

    what can I say...

    ...

    actually, I have no idea if that is possible or not...

    But... were it possible, it'd be GREAT!

    In terms of what's possible... I'm heating every day with my system... the batteries don't hold much energy anymore, so as soon as the sun clears the shadows of the walls I start having FLOAT energy... so I use it to boil water in my little electric kettle, then I pour the water into different pots and pans that I have around my rooms, and... low and behold... it raises the temperature.

    It's cool. (i.e. it could be a lot warmer. : ) ... but, on the other hand, it is some degrees of actual heat.)

    : )
  • WindsunWindsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    When we see an actual working system that is reliable then we will get excited.

    Statements like this on their website do not inspire confidence "
    Technical Data Sheet? We presently share product data sheets only under Non-Disclosure Agreement with qualified volume customers. This is so we can extend the period of protection for certain proprietary features we have developed. "
  • Lefty WrightLefty Wright Solar Expert Posts: 111 ✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    From what I have read Nanosolar uses CIGS technology instead of silicone. The process is sometimes called thinfilm which is different than amorphus (spelling?) panels like unisolar which I have also heard called thinfilm.

    They have a contract to provide panels for a German commercial power project that will take up their entire production run through 2009.

    Or so sayeth the articles I've read on the subject.
  • GreenerPowerGreenerPower Solar Expert Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    There are some technology like "semiconductor ink" (http://www.nivi.com/press/printyournextpc.pdf), they've been around for sometime but hasn't reached any practical deployment. This technology could be similar to have the "solar cell" print/edge on aluminum. Remain to be seen is efficiency and wattage per sq-foot. It's not going to be pratical for residential if it takes 10 times the area to provide the same wattage.
    GP
  • paulstamserpaulstamser Solar Expert Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    Here's a link to a recent NPR program where nanosolar might have been mentioned.

    http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/200802013
  • TelcoTelco Solar Expert Posts: 201 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    Sweet. Here's hoping these are on the market by the time I need some, and they are as they are cracked up to be. Read into their 7 processes page, looks like rust won't be a problem as they've tested in high humidity areas with no problems, I'd have to assume that the cells are sealed inside their housing with no access aside from leads to plug them in. In their advantages area, it shows that they are high current available like silicon cells. If they are 30 cents a watt I'll buy 50 of them and not worry about conservation. Heh heh... ;)
  • WindsunWindsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    We have yet to see a working panel available from them, even though their original press release stated they would begin selling in 2006.

    Things like this probably don't help the credibility http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9727336-7.html

    A news search shows them getting tons of money - $100's of millions - in financing, but any real information on when to expect an actual working product seems to be a bit lacking.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    Hi. I'm new today, so I will tread lightly!

    The problem really isn't if companies can do it now...or can sell it for a buck. Nanosolar is definitely pumping it out and ramping quickly. First Solar is out of the gate already.

    The problem is the definition of the word 'retail' It doesn't mean joe consumer. I will quote from First Solar's website under 'Contact Us - Sales'

    "Thank you for your interest in First Solar. We do not sell our products through traditional sales channels such as wholesalers, distributors, dealers or installers. We concentrate our sales through a select group of project developers and system integrators who implement turn-key commercial solar power plants"

    Linky --> http://www.firstsolar.com/contact_sales.php

    We the amount of demand out there...it is probably a loooong time before I can get my hands on any of the stuff.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    i see as it is a play on words here. why do i have this strange feeling that if somebody were to ask them who has received any of their panels that it would go unanswered or unconfirmable. looks and smells like it so it's a good thing not to step in it.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels
    niel wrote: »
    i see as it is a play on words here. why do i have this strange feeling that if somebody were to ask them who has received any of their panels that it would go unanswered or unconfirmable. looks and smells like it so it's a good thing not to step in it.

    Hello Everyone;

    I am new here also. My whole reason for going solar is not to be Mr Green,but to get away from the,

    Corpo structure, run by Corpo America, run by Corpo Criminals controlled by the Corpo Media.

    Their corporate investors and stockholders will get all the corporate money
    probably with tax incentives, lining their pockets while they thumb their noses at the "We the people". If it does not work out ,we will just claim bankruptcy,all the big boy`s take the money,stock options and furniture with them and the small retail investors,product purchasers, and actual workers get burned.
    ...Sorry Charlie Brown,.. let me hype up the game so I ,can pull it out from under you and tell you what you did not win.

    So typical anymore.....Thats what it looks like to me!

    Why wait on the technology,make your savings now.When they finally get around to helping "Joe consumer"(of which, they already have bled dry, There will be something else anyway.Or you have missed out on thousands of dollars of savings ,waiting for someone to say ..Ok you can play now.

    Thanks for letting me rant...........or ,guess you can ban me here.
    At least you know how some other people see the picture.

    Thanks also for the forum and letting me be a member
    (at least for now, lol).Lots of great information here and interesting topics.

    Sincerely,

    Rob Clay

    Deemed a "Ron Paul Kook" By the Corporate Empire
    and loving it.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    your opinion has been noted on corporations and keep in mind this is not a political forum. thanks.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    Yes Niel

    Duly Noted

    Thank You
  • WindsunWindsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels
    niel wrote: »
    your opinion has been noted on corporations and keep in mind this is not a political forum. thanks.

    Like many of the "I hate Corporations" rants, it is pretty much one sided.

    BTW, we are a corporation - I guess that makes us evil.
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    Ok.
    The thread is Product reviews and opinions.

    Nanosolar has a lot of hype to the entire public but does not serve the entire public. So the $1 a watt to the public, so everyone can go solar, is a crock at this point.

    The meat of my thread, regardless how I feel about hype corporations
    Said, Why wait on the technology ,when you can be saving money now.
    Many people are saying they are going to wait for these $1 a watt systems.

    Well, I think that Nanosolar, is not helping bring down the cost to the consumer. (which all the hype, says they will.) so the public was/is being
    misled.

    I did not feel NAWS was hyping any new technology, that they are "making"
    and going out to the public with, so , if you want to lump yourself with the rest that do (and call yourself "evil") those are your words,sorry you took it so personal.

    Again, the thread is product review and opinion. Once opinion is mentioned ,that does not match someone elses view, they are condemmed
    and other words are put into their mouth (Evil).

    If I,had anything against Naws, why would I have been shopping at your
    store and coming to your forum?

    Anyway, I wish you all the best, in your endeavors,sales and life.
    Rob
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    to be clear here i think it was your rant that may have been misinterpretted, but, even if not the case, i think we can agree that nanosolar is bssolar and let it go at that, ok?
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    sorry, i didn't mean to delete your posts, but they were political, had nothing to do with solar, and you 2 know better.
  • lamplightlamplight Solar Expert Posts: 368 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    God save the Queen! :D
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    I agree that they have been announcing this ultra cheap solar that will never make it to the market unless more people start buying it. I am constantly hearing homeowners say that they are just waiting for it to get cheaper. Then in 20 years they will realize that they could of been making a difference and saving money instead of just waiting for the promised solar epiphany. I say we take advantage of the resources given to us and make it happen.
  • crewzercrewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    SS,

    A condition of forum registration is an agreement to follow the forum rules. One of few but important rules is the following:
    1. No commercial ads, solicitations, or links to our competitors for items that we list (If we don't carry it, no problem).
    Your signature contains a hot-link to rethink-solar-power.com, which basically appears to be a portal to CitizenRE, a somewhat controversial commercial enterprise. See: http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/reinsider/story?id=47419

    I request that you remove the link from your signature.

    Jim / crewzer
    Moderator
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    Nano-solar achieves 1gw throughput:

    Question is,,,,Is this going to be for real? or is it more hype/vapor ware?
    http://www.nanosolar.com/blog3/

    Opinions?
  • RoderickRoderick Solar Expert Posts: 253 ✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    It's vaporware to me until I see a single panel sold to the public. That video shows how fast they can print, but newspapers can print quickly, too. When they publish a spec sheet and sell an actual panel to a consumer, then I'll start to believe.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,569 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels
    Roderick wrote: »
    When they publish a spec sheet and sell an actual panel to a consumer, then I'll start to believe.

    I'll believe after a year of non-degraded output. 5 would be better.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    hmmm. i'm wondering where this gw of power was delivered.
  • Solar GuppySolar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    If you read the press release, its about the 1.65 million spent on a press that when run at some run-rate could produce the 1GW, as others have pointed out, its total vaporware at this point, not one production panel as be produced or sold yet, only 7 engineering proto-types and NO data about how they last in the enviorment
  • solarixsolarix Solar Expert Posts: 713 ✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    I've been watching Nanosolar (along with Firefly Energy) for 3 years now and its one of the reasons causing me to get back into solar. While I agree that no one should depend on this new technology (yet), they seem to be doing the right things for a breakthrough technology, with good people, good money, and are confident enough to spend 100 mil on a facility in Palo Alto. Conergy has the distribution contract with them but of course the big question is - When can I get some of this sub $1/watt panels? I came to the realization last year that it doesn't really matter too much if this happens, cause if it does, all the incentives will go away and you'll end up paying about the same for a system. I tell customers not to wait.
  • solarixsolarix Solar Expert Posts: 713 ✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    The problem with the current silicon wafer solar cell technology is that the capital efficiency is too low. The amount of yearly revenue compared to the capital needed to produce it is only about one to one which sucks from a financial standpoint. This is why after 30 years the industry is still dependant on subsidies. Nano tech solar has the potential of improving this by an order of magnitude. Of course, we are still waiting to see how they do, but would you bet on a mature (silicon) technology that has little additional improvement or a promising infant technology that has great potential?

    According to my cost analysis that I use for a PV sales tool, the payback time for a typical 3kW system is like 12 years. It gets worse with larger or smaller systems because of the incentive situation here. This is with an under $7/watt cost that I can acheive because of low overhead.

    If (small if) and when (big when) $1/watt PV is available (but no rebates), it will put payback times down to 8 years with about a 20% reduction in initial cost. This is huge in terms of sales volume. Only a very few customers (less than 1%) will go solar with the present costs. I estimate at least a ten-fold increase with a sub 10 year payback. A 5 year payback is potentially possible at which time a person would have to be stupid not to do it.

    By the way, as an EE myself, I've read the white papers on Nanosolar's printed CIGS technology and I think they know what they are doing and barring some sort of business screwup (or behind the scenes skullduggery), we will see these guys transform the solar industry if not society.

    To me the real question is how it will take place. My fear is that the utilities will get involved, buy them out, build huge solar plants, keep the technology for themselves, and leave us as dependant on the grid as ever. Most people prefer not to be their own power company, but I just hope that the low cost nanotech panels are made available to us independant types asap.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Nanosolar will anounce selling of $1/watt retail panels

    "Waiting for a deal on modules to put in a big grid-tie system."

    that wouldn't happen to be nanosolar you are waiting on is it?:cry:
Sign In or Register to comment.