Is this Surette just doomed to die soon???

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Comments

  • SaiproSaipro Solar Expert Posts: 74 ✭✭
    The inverter isn't adjustable regarding the cut-out voltage but the inbuilt value is 40V which corresponds ot about 45.7V is my bank were complete. I've never gone below 47.2V even with heavy loads of up to 2.7kW

    The only annoyance is the 42V alarm which would correspond to a 48V value on the 8-battery bank. That happens often under loads but rises back a short while later. Perhaps it's time to silence the alarm for good. I'll open it up and cut them alarm line. I'm familiar with the schematics and fiddled with two 24V units before this one.
    Semi off-grid

    255W Canadian Solar × 12, 200AH 48V US 185 XC2 bank, Victron Bluesolar MPPT 150/85, Victron CCGX, Victron MultiPlus 48V/5kVA/70A inverter (primary system) Victron Phoenix 48V/375VA inverter (backup for critical loads)

    300W Yingli × 2, Midnite Brat, 200AH 24V bank (powers DC LED security lights)

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,659 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sounds like the plan! Nothing worse than false alarms!
     The next inverter you buy someday might have this adjustable. Outback and Schneider make this pretty easy in there solar inverter/chargers. 
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • FreewilleyFreewilley Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭
    Okay, how about we get back to my issues....this kind of got hijacked. :)

    I have put posts questioning what a hub would do for my system, both on this and the outback forum and nobody has come up with anything.
    So I ordered my 2 RTS today.

    I also found a new tech company within 45 minutes and will get them down in the spring to evaluate my system and make it better.
    This is making me happy as I have had many years of struggling...
    Mate, VFX 2812, FM 60 & MX 60, 2 Full River AGM 400 6v, 1400 watt Solar Array, Yamaha 3000iSEB inverter gen
    12 volt Flojet water pump
    off grid summer home in northern Ontario
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,659 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the HUB may not help because the MX-60 had many years of production where the units did not network. Your FM60 will !
    The chargers need to communicate what they are doing with eachother especially in a summer home.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • SaiproSaipro Solar Expert Posts: 74 ✭✭
    I'm sorry I'm back to hijack this thread once more but the discussion has been going on so well and I consider it bad form to be spamming the forum with multiple threads on one issue. Here's the new dilemma:

    I swapped out dead cells for good ones in the bad battery. They're already showing signs of deterioration. I am thinking of getting a new battery to replace it. The closest match available in the market is the US Battery 2000 XC2 which is also a 6V golf cart battery type but 216AH (my Trojan T105-RE are 225AH). Will the newer battery be able to balance out and match the existing ones (closeness of capacity and being newer, its performance should quickly match the others).

    My primary concern is, being new, it wouldn't be at full capacity yet.

    1. Would that be a problem (not having reached optimum capacity)?
    2. Have I gotten the whole thing upside down and should simply jettison the idea?
    Semi off-grid

    255W Canadian Solar × 12, 200AH 48V US 185 XC2 bank, Victron Bluesolar MPPT 150/85, Victron CCGX, Victron MultiPlus 48V/5kVA/70A inverter (primary system) Victron Phoenix 48V/375VA inverter (backup for critical loads)

    300W Yingli × 2, Midnite Brat, 200AH 24V bank (powers DC LED security lights)

  • mcgivormcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017 #37


    Mixing new batteries with old in a series string will lead to dissapointment,  as a battery ages the internal resistance increases, the new ones will push current through the old, generating heat, this will damage both the old and new in a very short time and in extreme cases lead to melt down of the older ones. Additionally it is not good practice to mix batteries of differing capacity in series for the same reasons.
    Starting a new thread is often a better idea, so the attention is focused on your particular issues, randomly posting on existing or old threads is confusing. 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery bank 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah FLA 24V nominal used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,489 admin
    I agree with McGivor, start your own thread (discussion) for your system. That way, all the replies are about your installation.

    It is, usually, less confusing.

    - Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • FreewilleyFreewilley Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭
    I AM BACK! lol
    It was surprising to see my thread back at the top of the list. I see that it was nothing to do with my bank at all.

    I just re-read all of the comments to freshen my mind about my troubles. Which continue...here is an update.

    I junked the problem battery. Picked up a new one but have not put it in service yet. This is because the state of my batteries when I returned from my winter in AZ. Now I do not have a good battery to pair the new one with.

    Over the winter I operated my system with 2 batteries that were the most similar in SGs. There was NO RTS connected (it was plugged into the wrong jack on the controller). I now have 3 RTS properly connected. 
    On my return, the two LIVE batteries had these SGs
    A. 1.275 1.250 1.275  
    B.1.275 1.200 1.260
    The one "good" sitting battery (for over 6 months) had these SGs
    C. 1.260 1.245 1.260  
    and the bad boy did not freeze (despite temps of below minus 20), but the middle cell is dead dead dead.
    The water level in the working batteries was low, but not critical. All cells but the 1.200 cell were down about 15/8 inches from the top of the battery (not from the recommended level, from the top). The 1.200 cell was down about an inch.
    I had set the auto equalization cycle for every 4 weeks, I think.
    So I consistently see lower cell SG in each of my middle cells. Consistently.

    Since my return 3 weeks ago today, I hooked up the sitting battery (C) with the best working battery (A) as the 1.200 cell (in B) worried me, I think B is another dying battery, going the way my fourth battery went.
    I have been working the two batteries to try and get them fully charged. They have gone through a number of Equalization cycles in those 3 weeks, but the solar has been slim as we have had a VERY wet spring. Probably about 7 EQ cycles or so.

    I am focused on the middle cell in battery A, which was 1.250 on my return. The best I have seen this read is 1.235, even after a full EQ cycle. Its brother cells get to 1.255-1.260.
    Currently my tack is to not let the batteries get below 50% and EQ them as solar allows to see if that problem middle cell can get fully charged.

    As to what I do with my new battery I am unsure. One possibility is to get a battery switch and one more new Rolls and have a really good string of new batts and a string of so-so batts....if someone can recommend a good switch that would be a start.
    Another idea...is it possible to switch out the middle cells, since I have good replacements? Can a battery shop do that?
    Also...I have a brand new clamp meter! I just have no idea how to use it to troubleshoot these issues....



    Mate, VFX 2812, FM 60 & MX 60, 2 Full River AGM 400 6v, 1400 watt Solar Array, Yamaha 3000iSEB inverter gen
    12 volt Flojet water pump
    off grid summer home in northern Ontario
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 3,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What's a "full" EQ cycle?

    A marine house/start battery switch might work, something like BlueSea 6007M. It's rated for 300Adc, but I'd avoid switching under more than light load. It's make before break, so lights don't go out while switching. $54CAD at binnacle.ca
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • FreewilleyFreewilley Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭
    Full means the 7 hour cycle the Charge Controller allows for...sorry, that is my own term I use.

    Thanks for the suggestion on the switch.
    Mate, VFX 2812, FM 60 & MX 60, 2 Full River AGM 400 6v, 1400 watt Solar Array, Yamaha 3000iSEB inverter gen
    12 volt Flojet water pump
    off grid summer home in northern Ontario
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