Progress on lowering electric bill

Re: Progress on lowering electric bill

I too have installed vinyl double pane windows in two homes now. The last one was Millgard from Home Depot Pro (all custom sized, low E glass, did not bother with Argon Fill--my weather is not that cold or hot--plus the argon most likely leaks out after a few years)... Probably was about ~$100 each for an average size window (few years ago--price of oil now--don't know).

I also had the interior sheet rock ripped off and insulation installed (1930's wood frame). Blow-in was problematic for my home--interior wiring/fire blocks leave 40% or more of the walls uninsulated because of the obstructions (several friends that do remodeling found the gaps when working on homes that had blow-in).

The Millgard was nice because they include an aluminum angle (optional) on the bottom front of window to account for the slope of the existing window sill, and they offer windows without nailing fins--I can just slide them into the old wood double hung window openings after the sashes have been removed. Just measure the inside dimensions of your existing wood double hung windows, but make it an ~1/8"-1/4" smaller than the smallest dimension.

I have installed both from outside and the inside, and I prefer doing it from the inside.

1. Pull off interior trim from sides of top of window (use a utility knife to cut the paint from the trim to prevent pealing of paint, pry trim off with flat bars).
2. Using your bars, pull off the sides ("stops"?) and the top.
3. Tilt lower window back towards you and cut sash cords (or disconnect springs. Be careful)
4. Pull out lower sash.
5. Remove side and top stops.
6. Pull out upper sash and disconnect sash weights/springs.
7. Leave outer stops in place and try to fit in window. For me, I had to use a chisel and cutout about a 3/4" wide strip of the lower sloped sill to allow the window to be tilted in. Pull window out after fitting.
8. Sand / fix / prime wood as needed.
9. Use Window Caulk and put a bead around the inside of the window stops (sides, top). Do not put caulk on the bottom of the window--you want any water to drain out rather than get dammed in. You will press the window into the bead to seal and old the window (I used some sort of buytal caulk for doors and windows instead of silicon caulk--even though silicon caulk is supposed to be paintable, I always have problems with the paint not covering silicon--the paint does not "wet" the caulk well).
10. I used expanding foam (in a can) to fill the old sash spring holes and fill any gaps in the trim (to prevent air infiltration).
11. Tilt new window into place and press into caulk bed. Open window and smooth/add exterior bead of caulk to top and sides as needed (not bottom).
12. Install the interior trim (trim to fit new window, if needed). Fill holes and paint. For my windows, I had to cut the inside sill back--used a small circular trim saw--when fitting the window, and ripped the interior stops narrower because the new window was thicker than the old sashes. If you need new trim, make sure to use real wood and not particle board--the moisture around windows will destroy the PB in nothing flat.
13. You can put a few deck screws into the side frame of the window--but I ended up not doing it for my second install. It was only needed because the windows in my first install were a lot bigger--and I needed to hold the vinyl in place with the screws.

I also followed roughly the same procedure when installing the windows from the outside. But, even though there is less mess inside of the house, I prefer the inside the house installation. I think I got a better seal against rain (leaving the old stops in place), less work, and if you are doing second story windows, you don't need an outside ladder to do the install. Also, it was easier to touch up the interior paint than to redo the outside paint (for me--no ladders required).

Also, I had some windows that where installed side by side. In my home, I could knockout the framework (non-load bearing) between the two double hung windows and install one large sliding (side to side) window instead. However, I did not like the look as well when I was done. For the second home, I just installed two separate double hung windows instead.

With one person, I could easily do 2-4 windows per day (first time). With one guy helping, I did 20 windows in 2-3 days.

If you have aluminum sliding/casement windows, it is more work and to do it right you probably have to do a lot more work (stucco removal/more trim work, use finned windows with new flashing, etc.)... Those I can see really paying somebody to do the work (I did not even volunteer to do my in-laws' home that was aluminum windows and stucco).

But if you have double hung wood sash windows--go for it. If you want, just order one window and try it (back bedroom or bathroom). If you are careful, you can even install the old window back (with some replacement trim) if it does not work out for some reason.

Just be careful measuring. I paid Home Depot ~$50-$75 to do the measurement (they will credit the price back if they do the install) and it turned out the guy made a 2" error for one window (he assumed that all the windows in the room where the same size--not true).

For my first home, I found that the west facing windows probably let in more heat (from the sun) than the walls themselves (stucco). So, I would probably replace my windows first, then insulate (if timing/money is an issue). Just replacing two west facing windows in two bedrooms each, kept the rooms 10-15 degrees F cooler in the afternoons (we used to shut the doors to keep the rest of the house cooler).

In my second home, I also insulated the walls too (and double pane vinyl windows). Now the 1930's home went from being as hot, or hotter than outside to where down stairs was (two days ago), 85F outside and 68-70F inside--and I don't have A/C. Of course, I have to keep the windows closed during the day and use the night to cool the house down. And the second floor was probably 5F warmer than downstairs--but it worked great.

Basically, with windows and insulation, I can get 20F difference between outside and inside temperatures (without A/C). And during the winter, I can just run the heat for 30 minutes in the morning to take the chill off the house for the rest of the day (SF Bay Area--no snow, few days of frost, very few 90-100F+ days).

We have a friend in roughly the same area (closer to the SF Bay), much newer home, insulated walls, but single pane standard glass windows--and lots of glass on southwest walls (two story living room)--and they cook on warm days in the summer. And that was one conclusion in an (Home Power?) article I read--too much glass/windows (and not enough thermal mass) can be a big problem.

The one thing I would still like to add is one of those interior/exterior air heat exchangers. Sealing up the home can make it stuffy after a while. It would be nice to circulate fresh air (without the heat gain/loss) into our home...

-Bill

Re: Progress on lowering electric bill

I am sorry I could not be of more help Niel. I know that there are jobs that just more difficult and not everyone can do (I am 51 now, and I am not sure--but washing my 2nd story solar array with a brush on the end of a 16' pole, on top of a 32' extension ladder--last week may be the last time I do that by myself).

For insulation, I have read some places that a reflective barrier may be as good or better than blown insulation. I have read interesting things about this type of foil backed "bubble-wrap" insulation... Much of the heat loss in a home is supposed to be radiant type loss--which air barrier type insulation (fiberglass, fiber, etc.) is not supposed good at stopping.

I don't know if it would help or not, but it may be worth just using some in one room (on the windows if single pane) and see if you notice a difference. I know that just changing to double pane made a big difference in my old, stucco walled, home (with just had attic insulation before).

-Bill