Newby's 2nd system in Hawaii

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Comments

  • sodamosodamo Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    So, managed to delay the whole bank replacement. Was able (with help) to determine I really have a bad battery with a bad cell. Was able to acquire another Sureete 4ks25p about 8 years old and in good condition. Came from a bank replaced by an installer and kept on a maintainer. Swapped it out today for my bad one and saw immediate improvement. So while the bank replacement can has been kicked down the road a bit, I will have to readdress at some point.
    10.04 KW panels
    3- FM80 CC
    4- FX3048T Inverters
    FNDC, MATE3
    OpticsRE
    12 - 1350ah Rolls Surette 4v
    24kw generator (Chinese, built in Az)
    10kw MEP803A backup generator
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    sodamo said:
    So, managed to delay the whole bank replacement. Was able (with help) to determine I really have a bad battery with a bad cell. Was able to acquire another Sureete 4ks25p about 8 years old and in good condition.
    That's very good news... with some luck you will get by until some of the newer battery technologies are mature.  How were you able (with help) to determine which battery was bad?  Were both cells in that battery bad?

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2016 #34
    Definitely hang on for the 4th quarter this year. I just shipped some batteries to a client there and while it is a smooth process, the excess shipping charge was 3 times the quote. Easy as long as your wallet is large.

    I would look for another battery as once they start going they quickly line up and want the same. Not a bad idea to start EQ's monthly or more if the SG is not behaving.

    I meant to ask you before what is your number? How many KWH per day on average?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • sodamosodamo Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    vtmaps said:
    sodamo said:
    So, managed to delay the whole bank replacement. Was able (with help) to determine I really have a bad battery with a bad cell. Was able to acquire another Sureete 4ks25p about 8 years old and in good condition.
    That's very good news... with some luck you will get by until some of the newer battery technologies are mature.  How were you able (with help) to determine which battery was bad?  Were both cells in that battery bad?

    --vtMaps


    SG check, bad cell in one battery was 1.1, other cell was good.

    10.04 KW panels
    3- FM80 CC
    4- FX3048T Inverters
    FNDC, MATE3
    OpticsRE
    12 - 1350ah Rolls Surette 4v
    24kw generator (Chinese, built in Az)
    10kw MEP803A backup generator
  • sodamosodamo Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    Dave
    in 2015 my daily average kW usage was 28.4. This year won't compute well as I had the hot tub off for almost 2 months.

    hope to hear more about battery futures.

    10.04 KW panels
    3- FM80 CC
    4- FX3048T Inverters
    FNDC, MATE3
    OpticsRE
    12 - 1350ah Rolls Surette 4v
    24kw generator (Chinese, built in Az)
    10kw MEP803A backup generator
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd say get a pack of golf cart batteries and forget the NiFe.  The NiFe will last, but I'm not looking forward to the time I have to drain and refresh the electrolyte in the cells. Huge job.  Their efficiency is low, in the 70% ballpark and they use a lot of water.
    In your email to me, you said 24V @ 1,000ah.  Going to 48V you only need 500ah,  as the voltage of the bank goes up, you need less ah to store the same watt hours. 
    So, I say a 48V FLA bank, cheap, needs to last just a year before Dave's magic battery comes along.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    sodamo said:
    SG check, bad cell in one battery was 1.1, other cell was good.
    If your scheme (to replace the one bad battery with a used battery) works out well for you (and I hope it does), you should take that as validation of your design decision to have just one string of batteries.

    With a single string of batteries, when one cell goes bad, you know it right away... you have caught it early.  When you have parallel strings of batteries, when one cell goes bad, the good strings mask the problem until all cells in the bank have been damaged. 

    And, when you have multiple strings of batteries, you also have multiple times the chance of developing a bad cell to begin with. 

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mike there is no way he can do what you suggest! I think you are mixing him up with someone else! 1350 AH @ 48V His wife would kill him and we would hear about it across the pacific.

    So 28.4 KWH. Not a bad number as long as you have the ability to shift most of it to daytime loads. It sounds like you don't and that is why this bank did not last as long in my opinion.  Any idea what your sun down to sunrise usage is?

    My big systems easily do 40 + even 60 KWH but they use really efficient appliances that we select. They also track the sun to stay off the battery longer each day and can shift off some loads in winter.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • sodamosodamo Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    I'd say get a pack of golf cart batteries and forget the NiFe.  The NiFe will last, but I'm not looking forward to the time I have to drain and refresh the electrolyte in the cells. Huge job.  Their efficiency is low, in the 70% ballpark and they use a lot of water.
    In your email to me, you said 24V @ 1,000ah.  Going to 48V you only need 500ah,  as the voltage of the bank goes up, you need less ah to store the same watt hours. 
    So, I say a 48V FLA bank, cheap, needs to last just a year before Dave's magic battery comes along.
    Mike,
    sorry if I somehow caused confusion, but we are a 48v system.
    as for the GC batteries, I did consider that a while back, but decided it wouldn't be worthwhile and require too many parallel strings.
    sounds like I should avoid the NiFe batteries.
    10.04 KW panels
    3- FM80 CC
    4- FX3048T Inverters
    FNDC, MATE3
    OpticsRE
    12 - 1350ah Rolls Surette 4v
    24kw generator (Chinese, built in Az)
    10kw MEP803A backup generator
  • sodamosodamo Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭

    Mike there is no way he can do what you suggest! I think you are mixing him up with someone else! 1350 AH @ 48V His wife would kill him and we would hear about it across the pacific.

    So 28.4 KWH. Not a bad number as long as you have the ability to shift most of it to daytime loads. It sounds like you don't and that is why this bank did not last as long in my opinion.  Any idea what your sun down to sunrise usage is?

    My big systems easily do 40 + even 60 KWH but they use really efficient appliances that we select. They also track the sun to stay off the battery longer each day and can shift off some loads in winter.
    Dave, we do a pretty good job of shifting. The only big nighttime loads being the water pump and refrigeration. We are probably 99% successful of not running other appliances at night, hot tub is on a timer for daylight hours and never run the pool pumps at night or if not sunny.
    Look for a PM I sent you that will show this data, although it is not as neat and consider as it could be. I only track usage 24 hours, but the OpticsRE site has it by the hour. Problem is my less than normal usage this year and the break in data due to switching out Mate 3.
    10.04 KW panels
    3- FM80 CC
    4- FX3048T Inverters
    FNDC, MATE3
    OpticsRE
    12 - 1350ah Rolls Surette 4v
    24kw generator (Chinese, built in Az)
    10kw MEP803A backup generator
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It looks like the summer weather in Hawaii? Solar starting to get clouded in and not keeping up.  I was hoping to see some pix!
    My client on Maui  always says the tracker mostly always catches up around 5pm and he is full by sundown. Even a west only array can help for the night.  I try to keep the night load average less than 300 watts except when the dinner and entertainment loads are there, Looks like you are around 500 watts. Aloooo Ha! 

    I hope this was OK to post? If not I get 3 demerits which easily cancel 5 nice jobs!




    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • sodamosodamo Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    yup, being at 1100 ft we get clouds.

    our panels basically face south and north.


    10.04 KW panels
    3- FM80 CC
    4- FX3048T Inverters
    FNDC, MATE3
    OpticsRE
    12 - 1350ah Rolls Surette 4v
    24kw generator (Chinese, built in Az)
    10kw MEP803A backup generator
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2016 #44
    My Google would not let me zoom that far. Hmm... My other comment is that by not tracking, either virtual or physical, is the reason you are only at 70% charged at 1pm in the day.  Example, a 5 KW tracker is outputting 3KW at the 7's this time of year. 7am and 7 pm and more as the sun height increases.
    That is the reason the new battery tech will be great for someone like you. They do not need to fully charge.
    What is growing? I dropped you a PM.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • sodamosodamo Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    I considered tracking, but at the time, no good local reports, the few systems installed were beleaguered with maintenance issues. Prevailing thought was even then more panels were a cost effective trade off. On my own system, especially my north facing arrays I want to look at tweaking the angle, maybe manually adjusting a couple times per year. On my to do list.

    Those were purple sweet potato crops.
    thanks for the PM
    10.04 KW panels
    3- FM80 CC
    4- FX3048T Inverters
    FNDC, MATE3
    OpticsRE
    12 - 1350ah Rolls Surette 4v
    24kw generator (Chinese, built in Az)
    10kw MEP803A backup generator
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You do have to know which trackers to avoid! I give them a squirt of grease every 6 months and do nothing. Most (30) are running 10 years now.
    You need an east array and a west for that kind of power to fully charge batteries 325+ days a year. That in my opinion is why your Surrettes did not last 10 years.

    We grow sweet potatoes also, not that many but when they are coming in we get the wheel barrel out!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • AguarancherAguarancher Solar Expert Posts: 288 ✭✭✭
    don't know if it matters to anyone, but it seems as everyone's PM's are showing up for public viewing under the "Activity" link. Not too private. lol
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This does not bother me but it might for others?   What do you think Bill?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • sodamosodamo Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    Doesn't bother me either. 

    When grid tied got popular over here it was amazing to see he number of commercial installations on all 4 sides of a building.

    I have about 2kw headroom n my current CCs and have contemplated an East installation to grab more morning sun. If prices etc were right I'd probably consider a larger array with its own FM80 which would pretty much max me out space wise. 
    We get enough cloud cover/rainy days I doubt I could afford the 365 day capability. Always a compromise :)

    David

    10.04 KW panels
    3- FM80 CC
    4- FX3048T Inverters
    FNDC, MATE3
    OpticsRE
    12 - 1350ah Rolls Surette 4v
    24kw generator (Chinese, built in Az)
    10kw MEP803A backup generator
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,717 admin
    I posted this on the software questions forum.... I had lost this discussion where the question was asked.

    My answer:

    Somebody asked if private messages are visible in the Activity button.

    I believe what you are seeing are Facebook "wall" type comments, which are public.

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/profile/bb.

    Pm's are still private unless I missed something.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • sodamosodamo Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    Here's a rendering of my idea for my manual transfer switch:


    10.04 KW panels
    3- FM80 CC
    4- FX3048T Inverters
    FNDC, MATE3
    OpticsRE
    12 - 1350ah Rolls Surette 4v
    24kw generator (Chinese, built in Az)
    10kw MEP803A backup generator
  • sodamosodamo Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    I think it is 4th quarter, any news?

    Dave Angelini said:
    Definitely hang on for the 4th quarter this year. I just shipped some batteries to a client there and while it is a smooth process, the excess shipping charge was 3 times the quote. Easy as long as your wallet is large.

    I would look for another battery as once they start going they quickly line up and want the same. Not a bad idea to start EQ's monthly or more if the SG is not behaving.

    I meant to ask you before what is your number? How many KWH per day on average?

    10.04 KW panels
    3- FM80 CC
    4- FX3048T Inverters
    FNDC, MATE3
    OpticsRE
    12 - 1350ah Rolls Surette 4v
    24kw generator (Chinese, built in Az)
    10kw MEP803A backup generator
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Outback displayed Skybox at SPI in September. Schneider announced the Conext Bridge which I am involved with. There are choices for batteries and I will post them in the announcement in new products that i started last month. I am not sure you will love Skybox as it really is for someone starting out as it does not use existing equipment in your system. Coming to the islands in December! :) I also think that the real availability (pricewise) is as I said is for 2017 and maybe even 2018 as there just are not real buyers in this stagnant world and US economy.
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/351297/conext-bridge-for-xw-li-ions-from-lg-and-hoppecke-announced-for-2nd-half-2017#latest
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

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