eu3000is with psx-240 and xw6848
Hi, question if i were to use a eu3000is generator with a outback psx-240 transformer to step up the voltage to 240v will i need to connect the neutral bar in the psx-240 to the ac2 input of the xw6848 inverter? It has been refrenced in thte eu3000is that the neutral is not bonded to the ground (frame of the generator). Can the xw create 120v from its 240 input only? Should i leave the neutral un hooked on AC2?
XW6848 inverter with 2 X mppt 60 150 CC , with Canadian solar 260Watt panels 2 x 3.5 kw array
Comments
In fact, the NEC requires that that neutral wire be bonded to ground at some point in the system. It just does not have to be bonded at the generator.
If there were a bond at the generator and you connect the generator to your house wiring through a transfer switch that does not switch the neutral (the most common variety) you would have two ground to neutral bonds at different locations. That is prohibited by the NEC for customer wiring.
You most certainly do not want to leave the neutral on AC2 disconnected.
Hi new2..
In an attempt to be clear ... The Honda EU3000is generators have an AC output of 120 VAC, for North America. This means that the output Twist Lock plgt has three conductors -- Black for the 120 VAC Hot, White the other 120 VAC connection, and the Ground connection, which would be the Green.
If you choose to not use the Neutral -- the White wire -- you will simply have NO AC OUTPUT from the genset at all, whatsoever. The genset will be perfectly happy, it will just be delivering NO power to your loads.
The Honda EU3000is/a s in use here do not have an issue with connecting the genset's neutral (AC cold) to Xantrex 5548 SW+ inverter Neutral at AC1 or AC2 input, nor does the Honda.
The systems here have a single connection from the AC Neutral and system Ground.
These inverters are Stackable, and each 5548 supplies one side of the 240 VAC Split-Phase power, which is a bit different than the Conext XW inverters, which have native Split-Phase outputs from a single inverter.
This is just the experience on one system, which uses an EU3000. The other system's Honda genset is an EU6500is, which also has no issue with its Neutral being connected to system Neutral, and also has a single-point connection from system AC Neutral to Ground (this occurs in the inverter's AC Conduit Box.
Just my experience. Believe that you are in Canada, but believe that your basic AC power systems are quite similar to those in the USA.
FWIW, Good Luck, Vic
Hi new2..,
I cannot guarantee anything, really.
The two EU3000is gensets here have NOT been damaged by connecting the genset Neutral to the main system Neutral buss, and the genset Ground to the main Ground in the AC Conduit box of the system.
Each of the Honda EU3000 manuals state that the Ground of the outlets and the genset frame are connected. Neither of these manuals show a bond between the genset Neutral and genset Ground in the schematic diagram.
The manual for the oldest 3000 STATES that there is NO connection between genset ground and genset Neutral.
The above, and my personal experience in connecting two different 3000s into two different off-grid power systems has resulted in NO discernible poor operation, harm or damage to either genset, or power system.
This is ALL that I am saying. Additionally, have used a Honda EU6500is on one of these power systems, also with its Ground and Neutral connections tied to the appropriate busses of the power system, and there has been no discernible harm/damage/degraded operation, either.
The oldest EU3000 is about 11 years old. The newest one is about 6 - 7 years old. Cannot say what may have changed verses more recent units, and cannot say just what might be different in units made for your country (Canada, I believe), and units made for the USA (assume essentially NO differences between US and Canada units).
That is all, Good Luck, Vic
It's not the transformers fault or anything, just a new combo of parts that behaves in a non-predictable manner. I would think the AC current sense could detect the beginning of the surge, and I expect the sensors in the generator are a bit faster to protect the internals.
Inverter generators have no surge capacity, there is no rotating mass to supply a stiff surge for 0,1 second.
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
E-mail [email protected]
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
What is my next option ? If I don;t use the built in charger I the charge efficiency would go down the tubes estimating 50% wasted power from ther Gen.
I have a 6hp diesel rated for about 2700w at my elevation, and it handles 3 fridges cycling on and off, the microwave (1Kw), electric toaster (1700w surge when elements are cold) and 1400w blow dryer. Watching the control panel as the loads max out the genset, tapers off the battery charging, and flips into Assist is pure magic.
BUT, the inverter gensets can't do any surge past their 2001 watts, their control shuts off, and the XW has to change from pass-thru to production, A conventional generator has rotating mass, and that helps it "flywheel" through surges that cream a inverter,
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
stove top 2200 watts
freezer 100 watts
fridge 110 watts
led lights average 6 watt bulbs with about maybe 5-8 on total at a time
large screen tv about 55 watts avg.
gas furnace 400 watts stage 1, 750 watts stage 2
toaster 1200 watts
microwave 1500 watts.
Everything is on during gen use, but I only limit one cooking item on at a time max. I don;t think the generator is actually dropping the load, but the XW is lightnig fast to disqualify it, and this is the issue. Even with gen support on its still not fast enough react to a surge, and everything dims or if its bad enough I lose all output from the inverter for a few secs.
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
It would be a lot easier to NOT hit the system with those BIG surges than have to replace that genset....o
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/17098/demonstration-of-generator-support#latest
You can look at your batteries and the cable size and connections to limit the voltage sag. Some Inverters are slow in the transfer relay transition. You can take two Inverter set-up's that are identical and one will blink and the other will make a load transition like a UPS.
This might not work for you, as you said it made no difference if the ECO throttle was on or off, but it might help someone else.
I had a A/C that gave me fits on a Honda. I came up with a way by remotely controlling the ECO throttle with 3 relays. one regular one 24v, one delay ( delay on make, 120v ) and a one shot timer. The one shot timer controlled the ECO for 10 seconds ( dry contact ), the Delay timer held the load for 5 seconds. You have to run a pair of wires to the generator to give a dry contact to the ECO switch.
In Use:
As the thermostat call's for the compressor, the relay will send the load to the delay cube ( hold for 5 seconds ) and the one shot activates, it would make the ECO throttle turn off for ( 10 seconds ). After the load on the generator had stabilized for 5 seconds the one shot would switch the ECO on and it would go back to normal operation. Of course the times are adjustable.
Before someone asks, I used 3 relays because the regular relay is 24v coil, if your using line voltage, you could do it with two, delay and one shot.
The main problem is that being a hybrid it should have had an offgrid only firmware set-up. The XW tries to do both grid and offgrid and can't be optimized. The secondary problem here is it is ridiculous for a large inverter/charger to try and run support with a small generator. It really is made to charge a large battery bank and support loads with a minimum 6 or 7 KW generator.
I have used the 6500i and now the newer Honda without any problems for 10 years.
The DC charger alone here in this XW is 140 amps @ 87% efficiency. At 60vdc there could be 9KW just battery charging. Add the AC loads and one would question why this equipment was chose for this application.
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E-mail [email protected]