MiniSplit options

WaterWheel
WaterWheel Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Keeping this comparison to 1200 btu cooling units with single outlet only to keep things simple.      Many of these units can also heat.

Pricing for 12,000 btu systems start around $1100 for AC only units.     These units are quieter and seem to use about 750 watts but require 220v and an AC guy to charge them up.      Please let me know if I'm wrong and you don't need to pay an AC guy to charge them up.

The 30 and 48v DC mini splits also seem to use about 750 watts but prices start at $1695 and need an AC guy (I think).       Probably good units but mostly no name manufacturers with few if any reviews.

A in the house window or wall Heat pump with AC the same size runs about $450 and runs on 120v.     55 decibles loud so not to bad if you put it in a corner and uses 1000  watts max when cooling.    They have built in timers and you could always install a relay to control the circuit off your AUX.

An example http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-MN12CES-Portable-Conditioner-Control/dp/B008UHXLGA/ref=sr_1_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1460485979&sr=1-1&keywords=Honeywell+MN12CES       At $459 with free delivery and the lines can be run through a wall instead of a window.      I suspect that it could be mounted high on a wall if needed.

Your thoughts?

Conext XW6848 with PDP, SCP, 80/600 controller, 60/150 controller and Conext battery monitor

21 SW280 panels on Schletter ground mount

48v Rolls 6CS 27P

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Comments

  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #2

    Hi f a I,

    Those Portable A/Cs are not efficient ...  did not look at this particular portable,  but often,  they have NO SEER/EER ratings.  Real Window A/Cs and Heat Pumps can be reasonable efficient.

    MiniSplits are fairly to very efficient,  and usually have variable-speed compressors,  so starting Surge is very small to almost nonexistent.

    Have you read the MiniSulit Thread,  here?:
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/23007/mini-split-update-for-offgrid/p1

    Here,  we still use Window A/Cs,  but  Splits are in the future.   FWIW,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    I don't get why they don't use mini-split technology in window units?  Already a mini split is in the $1000 range and many window units are not that far behind.  So you could get a true window mini-split, with heat and AC, variable speed and nice and quiet and super efficient.    Can you imagine the energy savings of switching all non-rated window units to min-splits?

    Some day...  
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
    I was in Ace hardware and saw small window units with eer's of 12, that's pretty good. I figured it must be across the board, but the sears 5200 btu is still at 11 eer. I'll have to check the brand. Steady in the right direction...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Brock said:
    I don't get why they don't use mini-split technology in window units?  Already a mini split is in the $1000 range and many window units are not that far behind.  So you could get a true window mini-split, with heat and AC, variable speed and nice and quiet and super efficient.    Can you imagine the energy savings of switching all non-rated window units to min-splits?

    Some day...  
    It is the price! People who pay $150 for a window unit would not pay $1000+ for a 30 SEER really quiet unit with a 5 year warranty.

    My clients would and if it did not need someone to pull down the line-set even better!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    True, but for those folks considering mini-splits, wouldn't it be less expensive to build it all in one unit and have just about anyone install it in a window?   Also for all the people that rent.  I know I am preaching to the choir...
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #7
    A question or two... When I see >~20 SEER--There seems that may be some "weasel wording" to indicate that the higher SEER may not be more efficient than a lower SEER in some cases (perhaps this is just bigger central A/C units or such).

    And comparing different standards (like EER=12 vs SEER=20-30) and their "magic numbers" seems to be less than helpful too.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • WaterWheel
    WaterWheel Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2016 #8
    Probably the primary attraction of a mini split over a window AC or the on the floor heat pump (with outside air exchange like in OP) is that with the compressor outside it would be much quieter,   24 decibels vs 54 decibels.       But a widow or floor model cost about a quarter of what a mini split does after installation and is much easier to install.

    Mini Splits seem to run between 16 SEER and 22 SEER so more efficient but adding an additional panel to make up for the additional power required is still much easier in many cases than installing a mini split.       I'm my case I'm already over paneled for my needs and battery bank size.

    To keep things simple I only focus on the SEER rating since that's the standard the government seems to go by.

    Conext XW6848 with PDP, SCP, 80/600 controller, 60/150 controller and Conext battery monitor

    21 SW280 panels on Schletter ground mount

    48v Rolls 6CS 27P

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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2016 #9
    If you read the mini split thread over in the energy section you would know that the main attraction of the split is the variable speed compressor. That is where the cost comes in to build something decent that will last. By changing the speed you can control the power which is really helpful when clouds are about. You can regulate that and self consume max energy or throttle down and not use the battery. A giant energy controller or power regulator.

     Mine is getting close to 10 years and it gets serious use for heating and cooling. There are quite a few 30 SEER units now. Look at the best only models for offgrid. The fujitsu is pretty amazing.

    I do not see any weasel stuff Bill, just compare apples with apples. Maybe you are looking at the indoor unit Foolami linked and those are even worse than window units.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    edited April 2016 #10
    No, not from Foolami links, but from central A/C discussion earlier in the forum--"Weasel" is probably a bit over dramatic... But A/C units operated out of their "sweet spot" do not seem to always remain "energy efficient".

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Always is a very big statement!  Agree.
     The good central AC's (not too many of them out there) operate multiple compressors and vary the speed.
    A window unit is either on, or cycling on to off.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • WaterWheel
    WaterWheel Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭✭
    #12
    I've found and read the Mini Split thread Dave suggested and a bit more research so at this point I'll go ahead with a mini split but with the higher cost and installation labor it may be a while before I get one installed.


    thanks for the help folks.

    Conext XW6848 with PDP, SCP, 80/600 controller, 60/150 controller and Conext battery monitor

    21 SW280 panels on Schletter ground mount

    48v Rolls 6CS 27P

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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #13
    You install it and I will vacuum the line set!  The downside is there is no warranty and you have to pay my travel expenses and ransom.
    Many of my clients because of their remote locations end up learning to pull down a line-set. Not rocket science but zero tolerance for mistakes.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • WaterWheel
    WaterWheel Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭✭
    #14
    I'm capable of installing it except for the vacuum pump but the mini split cost means I need to hold off a few months. 

    Conext XW6848 with PDP, SCP, 80/600 controller, 60/150 controller and Conext battery monitor

    21 SW280 panels on Schletter ground mount

    48v Rolls 6CS 27P

    · Share on Twitter

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