Solar tax credit extended

Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
Looks like the Solar Property tax credit will be extended . 30% thru 2019 and then a phase down.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/congress-is-on-the-verge-of-passing-a-5-year-extension-of-solars-investment

Comments

  • Mountain DonMountain Don Solar Expert Posts: 494 ✭✭✭
    Maybe change the topic title to include the word "credit".  I don't know if we ordinary members can change the title on our own topics or not?


    Northern NM, 624 watts PV, The Kid CC, GC-2 batteries @ 24 VDC, Outback VFX3524M
  • strawbalestrawbale Solar Expert Posts: 29 ✭✭✭
    This is good news, but I have a question. I still have $5,000 in federal tax credits left from my March 2010 installation. It was my understanding that I these credits would expire in 2016 if I did not use them by then, that is that I would lose them. Is that the case, or does this recently approved extension also mean that I can keep rolling over and gradually using my existing credits? I am so hoping that is the case!
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,816 admin
    I have updated the title.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Thanks Bill, I was walking out the door when I saw it.

    They are voting today on the tax extensions so it will be awhile until the regulations are written. See your CPA or the IRS, but I see no reason to believe that you wouldn't be able to use it in the future.

  • MangasMangas Solar Expert Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭

    Solar tax credit question. 

    For 2015, I replaced my ten year old off grid inverters and charge controllers with new comparable Schneider equipment. 

    This year, I may replace my batteries.

    Are both of these qualified for the federal solar tax credit or does it apply only to installing for the first time solar equipment?




    Ranch Off Grid System & Custom Home: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF House Construction, all appliances, Central A/C, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Propane furnaces, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,816 admin
    As far as I know, new installations only. Repairs do not qualify.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • MangasMangas Solar Expert Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Bill.
    Ranch Off Grid System & Custom Home: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF House Construction, all appliances, Central A/C, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Propane furnaces, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016 #9
    I would disagree!  If one bought new batteries and throws in a couple solar panels on the credit for good measure,
    the worst that would happen if there was actually someone competent in the IRS, you would argue your case and at the worst pay the credit back if you lost and if you were audited.

      I know of two similar cases and without giving away private info I would say this is not a problem. The real fear is being audited and you should not make the amount a small one as normal solar systems are over 10,000 dollars and lesser amounts might be the trigger.

    When reading IRS 5695 the following is the definition below. It does not say that new only or no repairs. One can get very confused because the residential energy credit with a $ 500 limit is mixed in with 5695. 

    My standard disclaimer is the Secretary of state will disclaim and knowledge of my writing this and how do you really know it is me?

    "Qualified solar electric property costs. Qualified solar electric property costs are costs for property that uses solar energy to generate electricity for use in your home located in the United States. No costs relating to a solar panel or other property installed as a roof (or portion
    thereof) will fail to qualify solely because the property constitutes a structural component of the structure on which it is installed. The home does not have to be your main home.
    Qualified solar water heating property costs. Qualified solar water heating property costs are costs for property to heat water for use in your home located in the United States if at least half of the energy used by the solar water heating property for such purpose is derived from the sun. No costs relating to a solar panel or other property installed as a roof (or portion thereof) will fail to qualify solely because the property constitutes a structural component of the structure on which it is installed. To qualify for the credit, the property must be certified for performance by the nonprofit Solar Rating Certification Corporation or a comparable entity endorsed by the government of the state in which the property is installed. The home does not have to be your main home.
    Qualified small wind energy property costs. Qualified small wind energy property costs are costs for property that uses a wind turbine to generate electricity for use in connection with your home located in the United States. The home does not have to be your main home
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Mountain DonMountain Don Solar Expert Posts: 494 ✭✭✭
    You have to wonder what the words "original system installation," mean in this document. Scroll down to the paragraph under the Summary heading. 
    Northern NM, 624 watts PV, The Kid CC, GC-2 batteries @ 24 VDC, Outback VFX3524M
  • MangasMangas Solar Expert Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016 #11

    Thanks Dave.

    Encouraging and sustaining renewable energy users not dissuading people like us seems to me what would be most important.  I thought that was the whole idea?

    Looks like a question for a CPA outfit.



    Ranch Off Grid System & Custom Home: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF House Construction, all appliances, Central A/C, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Propane furnaces, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
  • Mountain DonMountain Don Solar Expert Posts: 494 ✭✭✭
    If the system is 10 years old then there never was a credit already taken, right?  So treat it as a new installation and take the credit now.  That still leaves the question of changing batteries in a year to be looked into. 
    Northern NM, 624 watts PV, The Kid CC, GC-2 batteries @ 24 VDC, Outback VFX3524M
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 5,041 ✭✭✭✭
    Things have changed as they do... minute by minute at times. But in looking into adding/expanding it was okay back  when I was growing my system in late 00's.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the system is 10 years old then there never was a credit already taken, right?  So treat it as a new installation and take the credit now.  That still leaves the question of changing batteries in a year to be looked into. 
    I would think that the equipment receipts should be in the year before the credit was taken.  There is language of 12/31. Going back 10 years might be a problem if you were audited.

    The CPA's usually screw up 5695 until you show them that there are different lines for the unlimited Photo solar, wind, and domestic solar hot water. 5695 is mostly about the energy efficiency one time $500 credits. It mixes them up.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mangas said:

    Thanks Dave.

    Encouraging and sustaining renewable energy users not dissuading people like us seems to me what would be most important.  I thought that was the whole idea?

    Looks like a question for a CPA outfit.



    I think renewable energy credits were for industry but who cares. The point is one needs to do their due diligence and know what you are doing with finances, just like living offgrid. You almost have to know as much as an accountant.

    I like Bill's answer as it is alot safer.....I just don't like loosing 30%. The old boy's at Hewlett Packard always said "you owe it to your country to take every credit that you are legally entitled to"
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • MangasMangas Solar Expert Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭

    Forget it, not worth the hassle. 

    Thanks for the input guys.

    Ranch Off Grid System & Custom Home: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF House Construction, all appliances, Central A/C, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Propane furnaces, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
  • MasterjoeMasterjoe Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭
    If a person has no tax liability and will not have a tax liability for the next 5 years forward, what is the benefit of the 30% tax credit for this individual?
    4.5kw 24v System
    18 Solartec 250w polycrystalline panels
    Xantrex XW4024 Inverter/Charger
    Conext MPPT 80-600 Charge Controller
    12 Trojan L16G-AC 20 hour 390ah batteries tied in 3 strings at 1170ah total
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is no benefit. It takes money to make money!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    Masterjoe said:
    If a person has no tax liability and will not have a tax liability for the next 5 years forward, what is the benefit of the 30% tax credit for this individual?
    I carried my solar tax credit for a few years before I found a way to create a tax liability... If you have a 401k or an IRA, convert all or part of it to a Roth IRA.   Use your solar credit to pay the tax.  Later, when you want the money in the Roth, it will not be income.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • MasterjoeMasterjoe Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭
    Yes, I realize it takes money to make money.  What I meant was all these solar installers are saying rush now get the solar system installed while the 30% tax credit is still being offered.  But the cast majority of Americans get a refund and I will be forever.  So for people in this situation if the 30% credit means nothing what then is the big rush.  I mean i'm guessing people who get refuds then should not be able to afford solar.
    4.5kw 24v System
    18 Solartec 250w polycrystalline panels
    Xantrex XW4024 Inverter/Charger
    Conext MPPT 80-600 Charge Controller
    12 Trojan L16G-AC 20 hour 390ah batteries tied in 3 strings at 1170ah total
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    Masterjoe said:
    Yes, I realize it takes money to make money.  What I meant was all these solar installers are saying rush now get the solar system installed while the 30% tax credit is still being offered.  But the cast majority of Americans get a refund and I will be forever.  So for people in this situation if the 30% credit means nothing what then is the big rush.  I mean i'm guessing people who get refuds then should not be able to afford solar.
    Huh?  refunds has nothing to do with whether you can use your solar tax credit.  What matters is whether you pay income tax.  If you pay income tax, but get a refund, you will get a larger refund (by the amount of your income tax) if you use your solar tax credit to pay the income tax.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • MasterjoeMasterjoe Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭
    edited January 2016 #22
    I have a TSP account.  It just seems to me to be a dupe credit.  The only people who benefit are the ones who would owe taxes.  I think rich people get enough breaks already.  I already threw away $28,000 on a system that has been doing nothing for me for 4 months.  I will never see a payoff.
    4.5kw 24v System
    18 Solartec 250w polycrystalline panels
    Xantrex XW4024 Inverter/Charger
    Conext MPPT 80-600 Charge Controller
    12 Trojan L16G-AC 20 hour 390ah batteries tied in 3 strings at 1170ah total
  • Mountain DonMountain Don Solar Expert Posts: 494 ✭✭✭
    I don't consider my wife and I to be classed among the wealthy, the rich. However, we have paid income taxes every year in the past 40+ years, more taxes in some years and less taxes paid in a few others. But we have always owed something. We took the present solar PV tax credit back in 2009 and way back in the mid 80's we also took a piece of that ill-thought through solar tax credit. 

    I am not familiar with your $28K system, but surely you must get some benefit?  No?





    Northern NM, 624 watts PV, The Kid CC, GC-2 batteries @ 24 VDC, Outback VFX3524M
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't think he does Don.  Past experience and due diligence are factors.
     Moving on what a nice break for the solar Industry.
    I am not sure they need it but going out to 2019 will not hurt.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

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