Battery bank & Inverter compatability ?
Arkansasoffgrid
Solar Expert Posts: 117 ✭✭
I'm running a magnum 4448 inverter with a 420ah battery bank. If my load is 4000 watts for 5 minutes, that would be 333 watthours of energy, for a battery that stores 20,160 watthours. The battery would have to supply 4000 watts ÷ 48 volts = 83.3 amps. Maybe another 8 amps or so for inverter inefficiency and I'm drawing over 90 amps from the battery. Seems harsh for long term battery life.
So in reality, the only time that I can use my inverter to it's capacity without battery damage is during full sun? If this is correct, whats a safe "max load" for this battery bank without incoming panel wattage?
Also what size battery is needed to maximize this inverter at night?
So in reality, the only time that I can use my inverter to it's capacity without battery damage is during full sun? If this is correct, whats a safe "max load" for this battery bank without incoming panel wattage?
Also what size battery is needed to maximize this inverter at night?
8-420AH US Battery L-16s, Midnite Classic 150cc, Whiz Bang Jr, Magnum MS4448PAE inverter/charger, 4590w Canadian Solar panels. Honda EU2000i generator.
Comments
-
The 420 ah capacity is only if you draw the power down over 20 hours... In other words, your battery bank has a 420 ah capacity only if you draw 21 amps (420 amphours ÷ 20 hours = 21 amps).
You can safely draw more than 21 amps, but due to Peukert factor your capacity will be less than 420 ah.
Your 4000 watt load for 5 minutes does represent 333 watthours of energy, but your battery bank is much less than 20,160 watthours when you draw over 90 amps from the battery.
--vtMaps
4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i -
So whats my safe "max load" without incoming PV?
And what size battery would be required to safely produce 4400 watts for 10 minutes?8-420AH US Battery L-16s, Midnite Classic 150cc, Whiz Bang Jr, Magnum MS4448PAE inverter/charger, 4590w Canadian Solar panels. Honda EU2000i generator. -
The 20 hour C rate is the best case scenario. If you use a more realistic discharge rate, say 5 times that overly slow rate you can expect to about 15% less amp hours.
I am going to estimate the 20 hour C rate for that bank is around 20 amps. If you were to use say 5 times that power or 100 amps it would drop your amp hours to about 370.
83 amps should be fine.
Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.
Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.
-
How long have you been living offgrid please? This is the time of year that we shift our loads in order to not use 4KW at night.
You battery should do this though and if it does not when it is charged, you have a problem. Could be a wrong LBCO setting, a bad cable, a bad battery. One of the nice things about the XW/SW and Outback electronics is you can log them. It makes it easy to see weird loads in a 24 hour period."we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
htps://offgridsolar1.com/
E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net -
These are good questions. The easy rules for FLA is 0.25C peak discharge rate, and 0.1C peak charge rate.
I'm running a magnum 4448 inverter with a 420ah battery bank. If my load is 4000 watts for 5 minutes, that would be 333 watthours of energy
So peak discharge amps is: 4000W/48V/0.9 (eff)= 92.6A DC.
For 420Ah thats a discharge rate of 92.6A/420Ah= 0.22C. That is within (at the top of) the recomended discharge rate for FLA. (100Ah per kW of inverter).
And, running your inverter at high power like that will (ignoring peukart, and exact voltage) flatten your battery to 0%SOC ie DEAD flat in: 420Ah/92.6A= 4.6 hours. Or to the recommeded 25% daily DOD, in = 420Ah/92.6A*0.25= 1.1hr
So, as Dave said, not something you want to do much after dark at any time of the year.
The battery would have to supply 4000 watts ÷ 48 volts = 83.3 amps. Maybe another 8 amps or so for inverter inefficiency and I'm drawing over 90 amps from the battery. Seems harsh for long term battery life.
So interestingly, when you design a system to have a peak FLA charge rate of 0.1C you get peak charge amps as:
So in reality, the only time that I can use my inverter to it's capacity without battery damage is during full sun?
420Ah*0.1C= 42A
Solar needed to generate this is: 48V*42A/0.77= 2620Wp. Which, (quandaryily) is not enough to power the inverter at max load on its own. (But using AGM or LFP, you could get 48V*(420Ah*0.2C)/0.77= 5240W. Better huh?)If this is correct, whats a safe "max load" for this battery bank without incoming panel wattage?
Its all a balance of elements. From the above you can see that to increase after dark Amps, or Watt hour requirements you need to increase the size of... everything.
Also what size battery is needed to maximize this inverter at night?
1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar -
Thanks for all responses. We live very conservatively, and have never been below 84% batt after 3 overcast days.
However a buddy, whose family is FAR less conservative, is dead set on going offgrid in the house we're building for him. I was trying to show him scenarios of my systems abilities/limitations. I didn't know all the calculations/formulas for the batt/inverter interactions so I figured I'd ask you guys.8-420AH US Battery L-16s, Midnite Classic 150cc, Whiz Bang Jr, Magnum MS4448PAE inverter/charger, 4590w Canadian Solar panels. Honda EU2000i generator. -
Arkansasoffgrid said:...and have never been below 84% batt after 3 overcast days....
Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites, Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
- Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
Categories
- All Categories
- 222 Forum & Website
- 130 Solar Forum News and Announcements
- 1.3K Solar News, Reviews, & Product Announcements
- 191 Solar Information links & sources, event announcements
- 887 Solar Product Reviews & Opinions
- 254 Solar Skeptics, Hype, & Scams Corner
- 22.3K Solar Electric Power, Wind Power & Balance of System
- 3.5K General Solar Power Topics
- 6.7K Solar Beginners Corner
- 1K PV Installers Forum - NEC, Wiring, Installation
- 2K Advanced Solar Electric Technical Forum
- 5.5K Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems
- 424 Caravan, Recreational Vehicle, and Marine Power Systems
- 1.1K Grid Tie and Grid Interactive Systems
- 651 Solar Water Pumping
- 815 Wind Power Generation
- 621 Energy Use & Conservation
- 608 Discussion Forums/Café
- 302 In the Weeds--Member's Choice
- 74 Construction
- 124 New Battery Technologies
- 108 Old Battery Tech Discussions
- 3.8K Solar News - Automatic Feed
- 3.8K Solar Energy News RSS Feed