Inverter/Charger Question

54d18 · August 2015

I was looking at a new Inverter/Charger for my remote cottage,
I currently have a 1750w Eliminator (sold by Canadian Tire)
I am looking at an 1800w Xantrex, with transfer switch and charger,

Freedom HF 1800

http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/freedom-hf-newgen.aspx

Does anyone have any comments or experiences with these?

Thanks,

T

BB. · August 2015

Do you want MSW inverter output, or do you want TSW/PSW (true/pure sine wave) inverter output?

-Bill

Dave Angelini · August 2015

BB. wrote: »

Do you want MSW inverter output, or do you want TSW/PSW (true/pure sine wave) inverter output?

-Bill

Good question ! I was asked this by someone who got one of the Freedom boxes from a sailor. When I looked into it the Freedom series has a COMBOX almost exactly like the XW and SW Combox. It is different in that it does not support the XW solar chargers (xw-60-150 and xw-80-600). So if the OP wants solar data someday he needs an SW or XW. The Freedom has the shortest design life engineered in follow by the SW and then the 10 years of an XW.

54d18 · August 2015

The inverter I have now is pretty much the same as this one, except the ability to wire direct,
but the extra that I am looking at is the transfer/charger, as well as GFCI capable.

Thanks,

T

lkruper · August 2015

Dave Angelini wrote: »

Good question ! I was asked this by someone who got one of the Freedom boxes from a sailor. When I looked into it the Freedom series has a COMBOX almost exactly like the XW and SW Combox. It is different in that it does not support the XW solar chargers (xw-60-150 and xw-80-600). So if the OP wants solar data someday he needs an SW or XW. The Freedom has the shortest design life engineered in follow by the SW and then the 10 years of an XW.

Could you elaborate on "design life."? Does this refer to how long the unit should last and is it based on the warranty?

BB. · August 2015

Design life, I think, meaning choice of components, heat sinking, assembly & construction details, sometimes even choice of components to ensure spare parts 5+ years down the road.

Most electronics are really going to have, at best, a 10+ year life before either they need major repairs and/or the repairs are almost impossible to make (cannot obtain spares, multiple old parts that have failed, thermal cycling has "weakened" components and solder joints, etc.).

My guess is that a "short" design life an be in the 3-5 year range... And remember, an off grid inverter may be expected to run 12-24 hours per day. Where a smaller inverter may run an 8 hour shift, 5 days a week, or even less. So a "5 year service life" inverter when run off grid may have as little as:

5 year * 8 hours per day * 5 days per week * 1 / (24 hours per day * 7 days per week) = 1.2 year "expected life" in an off grid installation

Not saying that is true for any of the above inverters--But off grid systems for full time homes is a significantly greater stress on hardware than the occasional use by a consumer (camping) or even a vehicle on an 8 hour shift.

-Bill

Dave Angelini · August 2015

The accelerated life test data I was shared with a ways back, showed XW's put thru temp cycling, load cycling, and a few other tests for 10 years. You can get an XW 10 year warranty with the California warranties that cost more. They were very good about announcing the end of the old SW's and still will try to fix them (ship it to Burnaby) 10 years after the XW was out. Agree with Bill that full time offgrid is where stress is highest.

Photowhit · August 2015

Xantrex/Schnieder make at least a half dozen inverters in this 1800-2000 watt range. I would agree with Dave that the 'design life' or perhaps quality of components are reflected in the price. I would think the Prosine 1800 inverter which I'm very familiar with, would be a 10 year life average, I've had a fan go out on the one I'm currently using at about 8 years, my cabin 1800 is over 10 years old and now 1 of 2 spares I have at home.

I think over at Amazon, people have had some cautions about the charging system in these, I would go and read through the reviews, This is the cheapest of the inverter/chargers and perhaps suggested more for weekend use.

Is this for a full time residence? Will codes be involved? Will the charging be used often? Is there other forms of charging, Solar? Wind?

Dave Angelini · August 2015

Photowhit wrote: »

Xantrex/Schnieder make at least a half dozen inverters in this 1800-2000 watt range. I would agree with Dave that the 'design life' or perhaps quality of components are reflected in the price. I would think the Prosine 1800 inverter which I'm very familiar with, would be a 10 year life average, I've had a fan go out on the one I'm currently using at about 8 years, my cabin 1800 is over 10 years old and now 1 of 2 spares I have at home.

I think over at Amazon, people have had some cautions about the charging system in these, I would go and read through the reviews, This is the cheapest of the inverter/chargers and perhaps suggested more for weekend use.

Is this for a full time residence? Will codes be involved? Will the charging be used often? Is there other forms of charging, Solar? Wind?

Good points and I would just add that all the gear that Schneider puts their name on, only the XW is really a commercial grade product. It has the environmental data and long history of use that commercial companies like Telcom for instance would look at and specify. Same as Outback!
At least those two are what I see here in my travels and business.

Photowhit · August 2015

I've lived in Florida and seen many Prosines on big boats in salt water. Not sure if that makes them a commercial grade product, I understand that the conformal coating they apply helps them deal with harsh environments. I think I would prefer a Prosine to the XW for this use and perhaps for my installs when the inverter lives outside in a minimal power center.

They are also used in ambulances and by the military (check out Iris Inverters the military version on many Humvees)

If we're comparing dollar per watt, They are priced about the same...

FWIW - I also understand that the conformal coating makes them hard to work on if problems happen.

In the end If I had my druthers, I'd go with a sealed Outback unit in a harsh environment. Most Prosines are only UL 458 but some are also 1741...

As to the long history, I don't know the lineage of Prosine, I thought it was a company on it's own and purchased by Trace/Xantrex Pre Schneider. There are Prosines out there with no reference to Xantrex/Trace. They were under a brand called Statpower. Likely They lost or quite qualifying for the UL 1741 when the NEC decided all DC wiring must be enclosed, which I often see overlooked in installations of Outback and Magnum inverters.... Just philosophizing now...lol

Dave Angelini · August 2015

I doubt many boats even big ones have the space to dedicate to install an XW system. I would use Outback here also and Trace was what we used in my yachting days, really most anything is OK on a boat because it is expendable. Boats do not need AC power to get back to the dock.

Commercial equipment will have all the environmental specs and the lab testing to show/prove it was done. The big Telcom companies want to see the data from a known Test Lab.

When we outfitted boats for offshore voyaging on a 3 year cruise, all of the electronics that ran or produced AC were replaced including the Diesel generator electrics. Nothing worse than waiting for parts when you need to get out of a hurricane zone.

54d18 · August 2015

This will be mostly weekend use, with power staying on for most of summer to power small fridge.
There are no codes in play, however, I would like ability for GFCI protection for outdoor use etc.

Dave Angelini · September 2015

54d18 wrote: »

This will be mostly weekend use, with power staying on for most of summer to power small fridge.
There are no codes in play, however, I would like ability for GFCI protection for outdoor use etc.

You would just buy a standard GFCI at a home center and wire it to any inverter. Sorry to be off topic in so much of this but it keeps me out of the woods!

Inverter/Charger Question

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