Inverter for an induction cooker and refrigerator (Running off Starter Battery)

lolcashcow
lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
Hi Guys,

After my failed thread here http://forum.solar-electric.com/forum/solar-electric-power-wind-power-balance-of-system/solar-beginners-corner/343982-induction-cooker-running-off-solar-dc-video-inside

It looks like I will need an Inverter (Pure mind you) I am in need of a suggestion as to what brand I should get.

I was suggested this one : http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-806-1210-PROwatt-1000-Inverter/dp/B002I04A74/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1439082490&sr=8-5&keywords=pure+sine+wave+inverter

After reading this thread here http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13097 and asking about it here http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=19873

I will try to use an induction cooker that uses less than 1.5k watts and still hope it cooks well. I will also use a blender, but as to how much watts that will use I am still unsure. I will mainly be blending fruit and nothing hard like ice and such; I just like smoothies. For the refrigerator I was told a SWING PUMP refrigerator would be a smart choice because it doesn't use much electricity. I think there is only 1 company that makes them and they are EXPENSIVE. If not I thought a regular compressor type refrigerator would be good, but I have no idea which brand I should pick; there are TONS of them out there. I will also never run all of these items together at the same time instead just use one at a time so I don't need to buy a huge 5000k watt inverter or bigger.

I do own a Nissan Leaf and the inverter would be connected to the starter battery and recharged by the leaf's on board dc to dc converter which I believe pumps something like 1.8k watts to recharge the battery. I don't have a lot of money, so I was wondering if you guys know of a good choice for an inverter (And induction cooker or fridge?) that won't set me back over 500 usd :(?

Comments

  • SolarPowered
    SolarPowered Solar Expert Posts: 626 ✭✭✭
    If you don't have a lot of money start with an economical inverter.

    You want Sine Wave

    Go Power
    Samlex
    Meanwell

    Stay away from SunForce. I use to invest heavily into SunForce in the past and they don't meet any ISO standard, and also emit a nasty EMF that is contagious to smart phones with touch screens.
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    we use a Rosewell cooktop (Amazon) on occaision with our 24V 1500W cotek TSW inverter. It can start at 300W and go up... to 1800W. Don't bother with a cheap inverter, will eventually cause a problem with 1 or more things you plug into it... Look at the GE fridges for 2015 ours is full size 17.5 cu.ft., http://www.sears.ca/product/ge-175-cu-ft-frost-free-top-mount-refrigerator-slate/646-000013474-GTE18GMHES 626Whr/day avg. over 13 days, 228Kwh/yr.... rated at 319 CDN Kwh/yr AMerican is a bit higher...Has a PF of one!
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Thank you Solarpowered for letting me know which brand to stay away from. I was looking at amazon and found the Cotek, or well at least I think this is the one: http://www.amazon.com/Cotek-SK1000-124-1000-Watt-Inverter/dp/B008J501W0 priced at $360. One thing I forgot to mention is that I actually want the fridge inside the Nissan leaf. This means... I can't get something so big. I was thinking a small 'chest fridge' or box fridge. I am not sure on the exact name of it, but it resembles a treasure chest.

    I don't have a lot of money, but I can take out a credit card to cover the cost. I would really want to go with something that is of quality, pure sine wave, but that does not make me break the piggie bank. I need an inverter that could handle the load of either a blender, fridge, or induction cooker with out turning over. I won't run any of these at the sametime so I can at least grab an inverter of 'quality' with out needing to buy one that can hold something like 5,000 watts.

    The fridge I mentioned earlier is this one http://www.amazon.com/Engel-MT45F-U1-Voltage-Portable-Freezer/dp/B001SIRDD0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8 I believe there are different models out there with different prices, but I have not looked into them just yet. It looks like this one can run off DC? with Clamps? Nice, I wouldn't need the inverter for this one, but then I'd still need an inverter to run a blender, and the induction cooker. I thought maybe the induction cooker could be run off DC, but if you guys read the other thread I linked... it looks like it is not adviceable at all.

    "Solar Compatible - Highly Efficient Engel Swing Motor - Low Amp Draws (even at start-up) - Variable from 0.7 Amps (110V AC) - 2.5 Amps (12V DC).'

    I was told this fridge could run off the 12v socket in the car thanks to the swing motor. That it could even keep ice cream.. well... ice cream! But I was told it is an expensive type of fridge :( So I am a little unsure should I try to buy a model that of this fridge that does not cost as much or try to find a compressor regular type of chest fridge?
  • SolarPowered
    SolarPowered Solar Expert Posts: 626 ✭✭✭
    lolcashcow wrote: »
    Thank you Solarpowered for letting me know which brand to stay away from. I was looking at amazon and found the Cotek, or well at least I think this is the one: http://www.amazon.com/Cotek-SK1000-1.../dp/B008J501W0 priced at $360. One thing I forgot to mention is that I actually want the fridge inside the Nissan leaf. This means... I can't get something so big. I was thinking a small 'chest fridge' or box fridge. I am not sure on the exact name of it, but it resembles a treasure chest.


    I mentioned Samlex earlier. Both Cotek and Samlex share the same ISO approved board, so it is a good choice.

    Just make sure you are getting the right inverter for teh right DC voltage. Earlier you showed the 12V xantrex, but now you are showing a cotek 24V
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have no problem with the Xantrex inverter, it's a pure sine wave inverter and we have had some reasonably good reviews here in them. I don't think you will find an induction cooktop that will run on 900watts, so I'd look into the next size up.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Thank you both. I am not sure what the difference between 12v and 24v is past the extra 12v.... Is it battery current?

    I'm going to delay buying a fridge since it costs quite a bit. At least at the models I looked at Engel and ARB. I was looking into an edgestar but the reviews on amazon don't look good at all.

    To start I'm going to buy this induction cooktop: DUXTOP 1800-Watt Portable Induction Cooktop Countertop Burner 9100MC at Amazon.

    15 power levels 200W, 300W, 400W, 500W, 600W, 700W, 800W, 900W, 1000W, 1100W, 1200W, 1300W, 1500W, 1600W, 1800W;
    15 temperature range from 140°F, 160°F, 180°F, 200°F, 220°F, 240°F, 260°F, 280°F, 300°F, 320°F, 340°F, 370°F, 400°F, 430°F, 460°F;
    Product Built to North American Electrical Standards, 120V 60Hz AC

    It uses up to 1800 watts and i will use it with a nice cast iron skillet that is 8" in diameter. It should work well, I think.

    I will use that cooktop and also my old blender which I have. I wrote down the details of it here:

    Ozterizer
    Dual Range
    Pulse Matic 12

    Maker is Oster I believe
    on the bottom it says

    120 volts
    375 watts
    25-60 hz max freq
    A.C. Only
    made in mexico? at least not chinese

    So I'm not sure how much power the motor for the blender will need for starting up? I have herd up to x3 times stated load? So 375*3=1125 watts?

    It is an old blender, so I am not sure how efficient it is. Hopefully it can work with a pure sine inverter?

    So I won't be ussing both of these at the same time. This will at least let me get a smaller pure sine inverter and lower the total cost a little. It looks like the biggest load will be the cooktop at 1800 watts. What kind of inverter would you guys suggest that could handle these two items well?

    I only mentioned the cotek because wetbranch suggested it. I have no idea what type of items run off 24v? Is it dryers? I won't be using any of those or a microwave with the cooktop. I'll just run it off my leaf's starter battery and let the dc to dc converter recharge it while in use.

    edit-

    Since the old inverter I was suggested is only 1000watts I looked at ebay and found a 2000watt version of the same brand http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWat...dp/B002LGEMOQ/

    I don't know if xantrex is a brand I should put my money in though someone just now said it was 'okay' but at the price is there anything of better quality?

    " It also meets UL458 marine supplement. The PROwatt SW Series feature True Sine-Wave AC output with 540, 900 and 1800 continuous watts respectively. "
    • A/C Output: 120 VAC, 60Hz
    • Power Output: 1800 Watts Sine Wave
    • Input Range: 10.5 15.5 Vdc
    • Includes USB charging receptacle
    • GFCI receptacle
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Xantrex makes some nicer high end inverters, It's legacy is Trace>Xantrex>Schnieder... They had some of the early reliable inverters and some of their employees went on to be industry leaders like the Owner-Operators of Midnite.

    They have several different units and branches, They make at least 3 different 1800-2000 Watt inverters, I have and use a Prosine unit which is on the higher end, ProWatt and Freedom HF are less expensive. The Freedom HF appears to be marketed under Schnieder now, the parent company. It has a built in charger, I vaguely recall some negative remarks about the charger... I actually think they have yet another inexpensive one but can't recall it. look at what others looked at on Amazon!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The listed outputs for the induction cooktop might be heating equivilents or something like that.... The 2 I have both have a pretty high base current 7-900 watts is what I'm recalling. I think they both start at a medium high setting and then are turned down or up from there. Summer I haven't been cooking... I have a NuWave and a Tatung...

    My thinking on cast Iron was that the thickness would help spread the heat, it appears to work better with thick steel than cast iron. Though my Thick steel is actually a sandwich SS Saladmaster. If I look to replace my cooktop, I will look for a wider coil8-9 inches, I think these are bot 6" coils.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    The difference between a 12V and a 24V system is that for 1200W you would need more than 100A at 12V but only more than 50A at 24V. (No inverter has 100% efficiency so AC output power will always be less than DC input power.)
    Same for lower charging current at higher voltage.
    But you need the same amount of panel watts for either combination if you use an MPPT charge controller.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Thank you for the input. Then it would be proffered to use 24v instead of 12v? I will be using my leaf's starter battery, so I am not sure if these will be able to dish out 24v? I won't be using any solar panels just my electric car which recharges the starter battery. I don't know the specifics on the leaf's lead acid starter battery, but I was HOPING it would work with out issues. Though reading into the reviews of the xantrex 2000 inverter someone on there talks about needing " 2 pounds of battery (so, minimum 4 size 27 batteries to deliver 125 amps needed for 1500 watts)"? Does this means I won't be able to run the induction cooker at high enough power because I am only using a single lead acid battery from my nissan leaf? I kept thinking that power would not be an issue because the DC to DC converter in the nissan leaf recharges the battery with something like 1.8k watts when it detects it being low. http://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-dcd...decoded-video/
    " This unit takes the 280-400VDC HV battery pack input and converts it to 13-15VDC for the 12V AUX battery charging.It is very stable at 74 Amps 13.6V output. Easily adjustable voltage output with a simple 10V PWM signal running at about 9 HZ on pin 1 and pin 3 goes to +12V to enable."
    here is the quote from the xantrax review:

    "I see a few complaints in the reviews about having trouble with high-load applications of this inverter. I bought one about a year ago, with the intent of using it to get solar-powered air conditioning in my RV. I made it work, eventually, and the problems I encountered had nothing to do with the inverter (which supplied 1500 watts sustained load and handled the surge of starting the AC, once I got everything else working).

    First of all, wiring: Everything will tell you that 4 gauge should be more than big enough: Not even close. I tried 4-gauge. Then I tried 0-gauge. Then I tried making the wire runs shorter. Then I started doubling up wire runs in parallel. By the time I was through, my battery interconnects were double and triple 4-gauge in parallel, and the connection to the inverter (coming from the center battery of 5) was 000-gauge (also known as 3/0). Connecting that to the terminals on the inverter required taking an industrial terminal block normally used for substation wiring and drilling a 3/8" hole to connect it to the terminals. Finally I had something that wouldn't drop 2+ volts over the wires when drawing 125 amps. When they say 4 gauge can pass 200+ amps, they mean that it won't melt the wire, not that it will give you a usable voltage.

    On top of that, batteries: Lead-acid batteries may say they can deliver huge numbers of amps, but not without huge voltage drops. In practice, for every amp you're drawing you want at least 2 pounds of battery (so, minimum 4 size 27 batteries to deliver 125 amps needed for 1500 watts). Try to power your space heater off something you can pick up assisted, and you're just going to get a lot of annoying beeps.

    And don't forget that after you've drawn off half of the amp hours theoretically available in your batteries, your *maximum* voltage will have dropped to around 11.8 (so battery load and wiring losses will be working from a lower baseline). With 5 type 27's, I could run the original rooftop air conditioner for no more than 1.5 hours before they were too far down to provide 11.0 volts under load. So I figured out a way to mount a modern, high-efficiency unit that provided the same cooling for half the power.

    The point here is that with a really big inverter, you're pushing 12V right to the absolute limits, and you have all *kinds* of weak points that will keep your system from working properly. These are really intended for big residential solar systems with batteries in the thousand-plus pound range. This inverter works *fantastically* well, now that the rest of the system is properly supporting it, but even for an experienced electronics tech getting all that arranged properly was quite an education."

    Would I be able to use the induction cooker and the blender well enough with only a single starter lead acid battery of the nissan leaf?
  • zoneblue
    zoneblue Solar Expert Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    As a general rule for each kilowatt of inverter, you need 100Ah of battery for 48V, 200Ah for 24V and thus 400Ah for 12V. This is to provide a reasonable C discharge rate, prolong battery capacity and life, to support surges and keep wiring and heat losses to a sensible level.
    1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
    http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar


  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    And that rule of thumb is a minimum. It can easily be 2x larger AH if you want to power your loads more than a few hours.

    Both average wattage x hoursofuse and peak surge matter.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Hi Guys I read through part of the Leaf Thread where someone uses their leaf to power up their home in case of an emergency via inverter:

    http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13097

    As I read I stumbled upon a section where people discussed upgrading the original battery in the leaf to a bigger size:
    KillaWhat wrote:
    I'd definitely go with a much larger accessory battery. Maybe a "marine" hybrid starting/storage battery...

    This is not the route to take.
    The "size" of the Accessory 12 volt battery will not help your cause.
    Perhaps initially (like the first 2 minutes), then the DC to DC converter will see the load, and begin trying to make up for the loss (charge).

    The bottom line is you can only sustain the load the the DC to DC converter can supply.

    But now you have introduced a battery with more capacity and consequently requires more power to charge when it gets low, so your requirements are now more variable, and possibly much higher than you intended.

    The 1000 Watt continuous pure sine wave is the way to go.
    It has something up it's sleeve in a short highload condition, and if you go bigger, your run time drops so much as to be useless.

    And someone mentioned the amount of power the DC-DC unit can provide:
    DaPooch wrote:
    Question about the rating on the DC-DC unit:

    "The Leaf's DC-DC converter can supply up to about 1.7kW or 135a"

    If I wanted to attach a Xantrex prowatt sw2000 (1800W continuous) to this, how would I go about it so as not to damage anything in the Leaf? What would the results of attempting to pull more current from the DC-DC unit than 135A in the event of a surge requirement or just going slightly past to 1.8 Kw continuous? Would the accessory battery be able to make up the difference temporarily? I don't anticipate needing to use a load that large very often but I'm curious if it could be done. I guess the other safe option would be to put a breaker in the mix, but the ones I've seen others suggest break at 150A I thought which is also over the 135A rating. Thoughts?

    And to be more exact per this website:

    http://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-dcd...decoded-video/

    " This unit takes the 280-400VDC HV battery pack input and converts it to 13-15VDC for the 12V AUX battery charging.It is very stable at 74 Amps 13.6V output. Easily adjustable voltage output with a simple 10V PWM signal running at about 9 HZ on pin 1 and pin 3 goes to +12V to enable."

    So it would seem that even if I were to UP the size of the battery to be able to draw more power from the battery if I go over what the DC to DC converter can provide I will be 'capped' by the amount of juice the DC to DC Converter would be able to provide to refill the battery. Though, at least from what I can see, the max amount of juice I would use would be 1,800 watts from the induction cooker at full blast. Though I don't know how much it will TRULY need upon start up at full; might draw more? So I would have to keep it below max or gradually climb it. Though someone adviced on that thread to not use more tan 1,500 watts because they are unsure for how long the DC to DC converter can provide its max output constantly. Someone guessed 30 minutes?

    I won't be using any solar panels and rely entirely on the DC to DC Converter to recharge the original battery inside the leaf. I still need to find out the specific starter battery it has to provide some numbers :( but I have been short on time. Though I wanted to provide this info to see what you guys thought about this ordeal. Your help is greatly appreciated!!

    P.S. I wouldn't know how long the new bigger battery set up would be able to hold a +1,800 watt requirement (Say 2,000 +?) whlie the DC to DC can only provide 1.7k max (From what was stated).

    -edit-

    Here is a quote on the advice I was given. I have a 2013 leaf so I am still unsure of the battery it has, but this might be close:
    RegGuheert wrote:
    The battery in the 2011 LEAF is very similar to a 51R type, but I am not sure the 2013 uses the same battery.

    I do not recommend trying to run anything close to 1800W from the LEAF 12V system. The highest current we have seen measured from the 2011 DC-DC converter is 135A. As a general rule, you should estimate that your current draw will be 1/10 of your power draw, or around 180A for 1800W. It is very possible the DC-DC converter will "fold back" at such high currents to prevent damage, leaving the tiny battery to try to support the voltage on its own (it can't for more than an instant). You may even blow a fuse...

    Still, an inverter is a useful thing to have with the LEAF, but I'd plan on keeping all loads below about 1000W.
  • animatt
    animatt Solar Expert Posts: 295 ✭✭✭
    Not sure what type of battery is in the leaf. If it is a standard lead acid battery? Upgrading size would probably be of very little help. A true upgrade if it is a regular lead acid would be to go to AGM battery. They can supply much higher currents. Hopefully long enough until the dc--dc converter kicks in
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm not at all convinced that using an induction cooker to heat a frying pan is the most efficient way to go. I've been using a regular electric frying pan for many years with my off grid system and it works great. The electrical energy is converted directly to heat. With the induction unit, there are a number of steps in the process and each step has it's losses and inefficiencies to achieve the same thing one would get from what I use.
    I'm sure some will not agree, but it's the way I see it and I get excellent results with my 1200 watt frypan. Yes, until it gets up to temp, it draws 1200 watts, but then it cycles on and off to maintain the desired temp. Cheap, reliable, easily replaceable and works very well.
    I also sometimes use a 1500 watt "light dimmer" to throttle back the max power draw of this and some other electric cooking appliances that don't have motors or electronics.
  • zoneblue
    zoneblue Solar Expert Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    Logically that makes sense. An electric frypan heats the cooking surface fairly directly, and a watt is a watt.
    1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
    http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar


  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for the replies. I have been asking a little more and I was told that

    "The highest current seen measured from the 2011 DC-DC converter is 135A. If you turn on your windshield wipers, the DC-DC converter puts out about 14.5V.

    IF the current does not reduce at the higher voltage (some converters limit power rather than current) and IF the 2013 has not reduced the capability of the DC-DC converter and IF the car was using almost no power (it actually uses a few hundred watts for pumps and electronics) there would be about 1957W available with the wipers on and the DC-DC converter running at 135A. If you subtract the car load, you are down around 1600W. If you purchase very fat cables and an extremely efficient inverter, you MIGHT be able to get about 1500W out of this thing on a good day."

    So, I was wondering ... what kind of high quality cables would you guys recommend? Copper would be a must i believe? What kind of thickness would I be looking for? Any other suggestions?
  • Saipro
    Saipro Solar Expert Posts: 74 ✭✭
    Semi off-grid

    255W Canadian Solar × 12, 200AH 48V US 185 XC2 bank, Victron Bluesolar MPPT 150/85, Victron CCGX, Victron MultiPlus 48V/5kVA/70A inverter (primary system) Victron Phoenix 48V/375VA inverter (backup for critical loads)

    300W Yingli × 2, Midnite Brat, 200AH 24V bank (powers DC LED security lights)

  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Saipro wrote: »

    Thanks :) It suggested 4 AWG though someone else suggested I go with 1 AWG because of the induction cooker. I will use the inverter from under the good so wires of one foot should be okay. Would you guys suggest using a fuse hold in between the connection to protect the inverter? I don't know if I should use a fuse holder or go the small breaker box route. What do you guys suggest?
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    lolcashcow wrote: »

    Would you guys suggest using a fuse hold in between the connection to protect the inverter? I don't know if I should use a fuse holder or go the small breaker box route. What do you guys suggest?
    The fuse is not any protection for the inverter, rather it protects the cables between the inverter and the battery if a short circuit occurs with the cables, or inside the inverter itself.
  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Thanks for letting me know. is the fuse box or a breaker box still a worth it investment? It sounds like it still provides some protection of some sort... What do you guys think? Can you recommend any items?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    What is the maximum continuous Wattage/Voltage/Amperage you pare planning on pulling (DC side?)? (Just to be clear).

    Does the inverter have an on/off function (or switch) -- If not, then a circuit breaker adds a switch function too. Nice to have.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Hi Bill,

    I was told the dc to dc converter from the leaf can provide 13.5 to 14.5 either amps or volts the person mentioning it first said 13.5amps then 14.5v.... Here is a quote from the person:
    Must read post by Ingineer: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8970#p207532

    According to Ingineer, 135A is the full output current.

    Definitely heed his instruction to NOT connect to the negative battery terminal. I'm not sure where the proper connection point is in the 2013, but you need to find it and use it.

    And here is a trick that might help you: If you turn on your windshield wipers, the DC-DC converter puts out about 14.5V. (You could remove your wiper arms if you wanted to run it for a while like this.)

    IF the current does not reduce at the higher voltage (some converters limit power rather than current) and IF the 2013 has not reduced the capability of the DC-DC converter and IF the car was using almost no power (it actually uses a few hundred watts for pumps and electronics) there would be about 1957W available with the wipers on and the DC-DC converter running at 135A. If you subtract the car load, you are down around 1600W. If you purchase very fat cables and an extremely efficient inverter, you MIGHT be able to get about 1500W out of this thing on a good day.

    I'm also being told that I should limit my current draw to 1200 watts when I cook for long periods of time. Quote below:
    This is from page 7 in this thread

    http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13097&start=60

    "I finally got to try this out last night. I have a Xantrex Prowatt SW2000. I have the inverter connected with 24" #2 welding cable and big beefy jumper cable clips. I turned the leaf on in park, with the parking break on then connected the positive to the positive on the battery, then connected the negative to the body of the top part of the motor. I turned on the inverter to find it sitting at a nice, 13.2v. I connected up a 1650w electric heater starting first on low at 600w, the voltage dropped a bit to 13.0v and I let it sit for a few minutes checking the connection to make sure nothing got warm. Then I turned it up to 1650w, to my surprise the voltage still only dipped to 12.8v and some of that is likely due to the #2 wire and clips. Again I ran it for about 5 minutes and nothing got warm."

    Now would I run 1650w regularly on my 2013 Leaf, no and I would I tell anyone else to do so, no, but I ran it for about 5 minutes with nothing getting to warm so the leaf can do this. I would think your induction cooker isn't going to be running for hours at a time so again it should be ok. Personally I would set it to run at 1200w or less and make sure the car is on and in ready to drive mode. The main traction battery will do all the "heavy lifting" for power supplying. The "starting" battery in the leaf is useless for powering any larger 120vac loads via inverter on it's own. Honestly if you tried to power a 1200w induction burner with the car off it might run 1-3 minutes and then the aux battery would be dead and remember once the aux or starting battery is dead you can't turn the car on to use the traction pack to charge the aux / starting battery.

    I'm not sure how many amps and volts i'll be using, but I will be using only these two electric items and never both at the same time:

    "DUXTOP 1800-Watt Portable Induction Cooktop Countertop Burner 9100MC at Amazon.

    15 power levels 200W, 300W, 400W, 500W, 600W, 700W, 800W, 900W, 1000W, 1100W, 1200W, 1300W, 1500W, 1600W, 1800W;
    15 temperature range from 140°F, 160°F, 180°F, 200°F, 220°F, 240°F, 260°F, 280°F, 300°F, 320°F, 340°F, 370°F, 400°F, 430°F, 460°F;
    Product Built to North American Electrical Standards, 120V 60Hz AC

    It uses up to 1800 watts and i will use it with a nice cast iron skillet that is 8" in diameter.

    I will use that cooktop and also my old blender which I have. I wrote down the details of it here:

    Ozterizer
    Dual Range
    Pulse Matic 12

    Maker is Oster I believe
    on the bottom it says

    120 volts
    375 watts
    25-60 hz max freq
    A.C. Only
    made in mexico? at least not chinese"

    I am hoping the power rating of these items can help answer the question bill unfortunately I am very poorly educated with electricity and others things :(. I am basically suggested to limit my power usage to 1200 watts, but it seems the dc to dc inverter can handle more than that. I'm not sure if I should use a fuse box or a breaker box. It seems the fuses are cheaper, but need to be replaced while the breaker is just a switch.

    Oh, and I asked in amazon if the xantrex had a power on and off button and it does. You can press it and hold it for 3 seconds then it turns off. So the xantrex inverter I have in mind does have a power button that can be used to turn the unit on and off. It also has a remote on and off switch but that costs extra and is ordered on the side. I'll be using the inverter when parked and with the hood popped open, so I don't think I will need the remote switch.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    OK... Just to be clear, I am answering based on your supplied information. I have never set eyes on the inside of the Leaf--So, I cannot answer from that side of the discussion.

    First... Note that 135 amps and 13.5 volts are completely different numbers You may be missing the decimal point and confusing Amps vs Volts.

    So, we are left with the DC converter inside the Leaf with a 135 amps maximum, and the output voltage is probably somewhere between 11.5 to 14.5 volts (normal DC battery operating range).

    Realistically, the maximum DC current on the Leaf side into the AC inverter / Induction Cooker would be around:
    • 1,800 Watts * 1/0.85 AC inverter eff * 1/10.5 volts typical AC inverter battery cutoff voltage = 202 Amps DC (typical worst case--Including low battery voltage+wiring drop to AC inverter)
    So--Pulling 1,800 Watts would draw (202 amps total DC load - 135 amps converter =) 67 Amps from the Aux 12 volt battery...

    So, the first question is how much current/energy do you want to pull from the Leaf?

    If you are using a standard DC fuse or circuit breaker, you design the wiring to carry roughly 1.25x more current to keep wiring cool and prevent false trip of the breakers/fuses:
    • 135 amps * 1.25 NEC derating = 169 Amp ~ 175 Amp breaker/fuse.
    And the maximum you should program the induction cooker for is:
    • 135 amps * 10.5 volts * 0.85 AC inverter eff = ~1,205 Watts
    If you do not want to pull from the Aux battery, that is your maximum current limit. Note--I suggest measuring the Induction Cooker with a Kill-a-Watt type meter... I have a different brand, an I have never seen it pull near rated current/wattage.

    Note that if the DC to DC converter can keep the DC voltage to >13.5 volts at the AC inverter (remember wiring voltage drop):
    • 135 amps * 13.5 volts * 0.85 AC inverter eff = 1,549 Watts
    If you do not have one, you might want to get a "good enough" DC Current Clamp DMM... It will help answer many of these types of questions.

    It is nice the Inverter has an on/off switch/function... Many inverters stay on and you need an external DC switch to turn them off (remember an Inverter may draw 10-20+ watts just "turned on"--That will slowly discharge your battery bank/Leaf). And check what the "off current" is... Some do draw parasitic loads which can hurt you over the long term.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    I have 2 Chevy Volts and have 1000W Samlex PST-1000-12 to draw from the 12V battery for each one. That DC-DC converter is rated at 175 amps @ nominal 12V battery voltage. The DC-DC will output 15+V so selection of a an inverter is pretty key for the over voltage cutoff, the Samlex has a upper limit of 16.5V. At the rated 175amp some of the output is needed to operate the car electronics, so the max long term inverter wattage I have heard is 1500W. In fact an enterprising fellow over at the Volt forum has put together a kit to do this. And higher watts over time will deaden the 12V battery. Even the 1500 watt inverter setup recommends you use it on loads like ref ridge compressor having a duty cycle so the 12V battery can recover from the surge and constant loads. Turns out a single 9 gallon tank of Gas will last a very long time if the loads are kept under control, although I have not tested it long term. The Volt will cycle the gas engine at about a 7-10% duty cycle to recharge the drive battery as needed.