Best Recommended FLA manufacturer

andyrud · August 2015

After reading alot of negative stuff about lithium ion problems I guess I am back to FLAs. My Trojan 2 volt 1100 AH are 5 years old and giving me trouble. I want to try another manufacturer, hopefully one that would last longer. After I bought the Trojans it was pointed out to me that the 2 volt 1100 AH batteries were actually 3- 2 volt 360 AH cells in series inside the case and not just 1 cell. What manufacturer do you guys recommend? I need a 12 volt system of about 1100 AH.
Thanks in advance,
Andy R

petertearai · August 2015

Hi i have a similar system to you . Have had 4 6volt surette solar bats . I think 450 ah at c20 .so series parallel i have 900 ah . Been in for almost 5 years and still going strong .

vtmaps · August 2015

andyrud wrote: »

My Trojan 2 volt 1100 AH are 5 years old and giving me trouble. I want to try another manufacturer, hopefully one that would last longer. After I bought the Trojans it was pointed out to me that the 2 volt 1100 AH batteries were actually 3- 2 volt 360 AH cells in series inside the case and not just 1 cell. What manufacturer do you guys recommend? I need a 12 volt system of about 1100 AH.

First of all, each of those batteries are actually three 2 volt cells in parallel (not in series). Five years is too short a lifespan for those batteries. It makes me wonder if your charge settings or usage patterns are not correct for those batteries. What are your loads and your charge parameters?

Also, do you have a shunt based battery monitor? Do you have a remote battery temperature sensor? Do you have an hydrometer?

--vtMaps

PNjunction · August 2015

andyrud wrote: »

After reading alot of negative stuff about lithium ion problems I guess I am back to FLAs.

That's ok, and quite frankly to be expected.

Most of the negative stuff comes solely from those with absolutely ZERO hands-on practical experience. Or, if they do, they come from unrelated motive-power fields such as EV, E-bike, or RC modeling. Other negative stuff comes from unsafe cheapskates who hack together counterfeit, gray-market, used or specialty cells in a "one-off" configuration on their workbench wrapped together with duct-tape.

Each requires their own set of operational parameters which differ from a solar housebank, *sized appropriately* for reasonable solar autonomy or reserve capacity.

Much like not knowing the operational differences between a flooded wet-cell battery, and a pure-lead agm, many don't know the differences in lithium chemistries that are out there and which is best for our use. We typically use LiFePo4 (lithium iRon phosphate), whereas other applications don't use iron-phosphate, but instead rely upon nickel-manganese, cobalt, or other chemistries that are inherently much more unstable.

In other words, the field is ripe for prognosticators, magicians, investors, marketers, politicians, bench-racers, fanboys, keyboard squabblers, news media outlets and reports designed to generate dramatic readership click-through profiteering.

Trying to find the truth for a solar setup can actually be very hard weeding through all the drama and misinformation. Thus, those that DO use lifepo4 in a solar housebank or even smaller setups, tend to be very quiet about it.

andyrud · August 2015

PNjunction wrote: »

That's ok, and quite frankly to be expected.

Most of the negative stuff comes solely from those with absolutely ZERO hands-on practical experience. Or, if they do, they come from unrelated motive-power fields such as EV, E-bike, or RC modeling. Other negative stuff comes from unsafe cheapskates who hack together counterfeit, gray-market, used or specialty cells in a "one-off" configuration on their workbench wrapped together with duct-tape.

Each requires their own set of operational parameters which differ from a solar housebank, *sized appropriately* for reasonable solar autonomy or reserve capacity.

Much like not knowing the operational differences between a flooded wet-cell battery, and a pure-lead agm, many don't know the differences in lithium chemistries that are out there and which is best for our use. We typically use LiFePo4 (lithium iRon phosphate), whereas other applications don't use iron-phosphate, but instead rely upon nickel-manganese, cobalt, or other chemistries that are inherently much more unstable.

In other words, the field is ripe for prognosticators, magicians, investors, marketers, politicians, bench-racers, fanboys, keyboard squabblers, news media outlets and reports designed to generate dramatic readership click-through profiteering.

Trying to find the truth for a solar setup can actually be very hard weeding through all the drama and misinformation. Thus, those that DO use lifepo4 in a solar housebank or even smaller setups, tend to be very quiet about it.

Hi PNJUNCTION, I am really interested in using lithium ion batteries at my cabin. The reason I am interested in them is because I am getting old and when I am gone it would be great if the system was more maintenance free than now. The kids are at the age where their careers are taking most of their time so bi-weekly trips to the cabin for battery maintenance is out for them. It seems the answer is lithium ion batteries since, I ASSUME, they don't require much maintenance but I don't have the expertise to size it and what manufacturer to use. If you have any suggestions they would be appreciated.

zoneblue · August 2015

Those trojans should have lasted longer then 5 years. Lots longer. So agree unless youre dealing with a manufacturing defect its likely that your charge regime wants checking.

1100Ah 12v battery
1270 watts of panels at 24 volts
MidNite Solar 150 Controller
Magnum 2812 Inverter,
12KW Guardian Generator.

Solar peak charge rate: 1270W * 0.77 /12= 80A (Battery 0.1C: 1100Ah *0.1 = 110A)
Inverter peak demand: 2800W/ 11V / 0.85= 300A (Battery 0.2C: 1100Ah *0.2 = 220A)

Its a fairly 'normal' setup from a few years back. Charge rate a little low, peak load a little high. But nothing to get worried about. So that leaves absorb settings and charge termination.

Check these:
- daily cycle should be on average 25% DOD (DOD rarely drops below 50%).
- completes absorb at least once every few days
- absorb voltage set to manufacturers recommended
- temp compensation working correctly
- If theres a WbJr, is the EA set to about 0.02* 1100, and abs time set to 7 hrs
- if not absorb time set to manufacturers recomendation (4-6hrs).
- verify absorb termination using a hyrdrometer, agaisnt recomended SG
- distilled water monthly

And... any new system/upgrade should have more solar, less battery and definately go up to 24V or higher. The days of 12V systems of this size are done.

Photowhit · August 2015

Rolls is often spoken of in glowing terms, though we have heard of a few problems in the last few years, might look through the posts here.

HUP is a solar designed Traction Battery (think Fork Lift) it has the longest or one of the longest warranty periods.

I went with a standard forklift battey and have been relatively happy with it 4-5 years later, though I have the same issue I had with it a month after receiving it, and that is some black contaminate in one of the cells. This might well be due to my previous job working security in a playground for adults. and I may well have been sabotaged! The SG remains good in it, but the electrolyte is getting so dark I can't read it with a hydrovolt SG meter.

My standard 804 AH Hour 24 volt Forklift battery cost $2525 delivered. So 5 years is the break even point compared with other batteries, but this should have a life span of 15 years or so...

Dave Angelini · August 2015

PNjunction wrote: »

That's ok, and quite frankly to be expected.

Most of the negative stuff comes solely from those with absolutely ZERO hands-on practical experience. Or, if they do, they come from unrelated motive-power fields such as EV, E-bike, or RC modeling. Other negative stuff comes from unsafe cheapskates who hack together counterfeit, gray-market, used or specialty cells in a "one-off" configuration on their workbench wrapped together with duct-tape.

Each requires their own set of operational parameters which differ from a solar housebank, *sized appropriately* for reasonable solar autonomy or reserve capacity.

Much like not knowing the operational differences between a flooded wet-cell battery, and a pure-lead agm, many don't know the differences in lithium chemistries that are out there and which is best for our use. We typically use LiFePo4 (lithium iRon phosphate), whereas other applications don't use iron-phosphate, but instead rely upon nickel-manganese, cobalt, or other chemistries that are inherently much more unstable.

In other words, the field is ripe for prognosticators, magicians, investors, marketers, politicians, bench-racers, fanboys, keyboard squabblers, news media outlets and reports designed to generate dramatic readership click-through profiteering.

Trying to find the truth for a solar setup can actually be very hard weeding through all the drama and misinformation. Thus, those that DO use lifepo4 in a solar housebank or even smaller setups, tend to be very quiet about it.

That is why Offgrid folks who live miles from anything really want people like you to test this out for us. We usually share good information and do not tend to be quiet about it. The trouble is that we live in these homes and have had really good experience with Lead Acid and are not ready to experiment like Boeing did. When the store here at Wind and Sun lists these batteries or my supplier does, we still will probably wait several years. Prudence dictates this Offgrid! The utility is not there for us to correct mistakes. Some of us are glad it is not!

Best Recommended FLA manufacturer

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