HELP! Need a good generator

Shawn-H · July 2015

I have been looking at the Honda EU 7000 is. I have about 4500 dollars to spend but I'm wondering this. Generator is really worth the money they're asking and if not what would be a good 5500 or more watt generator to use for charging on my system?

Brlux · July 2015

Perhaps a little on the other side of the price/quality spectrum from the Honda EU7000 (I have an EU1000 that I absolutely love) Have you considered the larger Champion generators? I have been fairly impressed with their products. For a Chinese company they do a very good job documenting and supporting their products. They have a supply chain in place and you can easily order any parts you may need from them. They have good quality control and the design of the engines are Honda clones.

I know Costco usually caries the dual fuel 7000W will run on propane or gas. I think they usually go for ~$800 and last month was on sale for $650. If it is a situation where you can live with a bit more noise it might not be a bad option. Especially if it is primarily being used to charge batteries.

Perhaps also consider a slightly used RV generator. They are quiet and designed for a longer service life. Usually 1800RPM and have a pressurized oil system with filter.

JoshK · July 2015

Honda has an excellent reputation for small engines. They are generally regarded as the best around here.

JoshK · July 2015

JoshK wrote: »

Honda has an excellent reputation for small engines. They are generally regarded as the best around here.

I have a Honda 185 3-Wheeler that was built in 1983 that, even today, it reliably starts on the first pull !
I also have a new-ish Honda 2000i generator that is great.

BB. · July 2015

How much power do you need from your genset? I tend to suggest smaller generators unless you really need those power levels (battery charging can be one of those high power level requirements). If I understand your battery bank (48 volts @ 375 AH)-- A 2-4kWatt genset would be more than large enough for battery charging:

375 AH * 59 volts charging * 0.10 rate of charge = .2,212.5 Watts at 10% rate of charge (excluding losses, genset derating, power factor, etc.).

And depending on your needs--Perhaps a smaller genset (like the Honda em4000sx--The sx version has a engine computer and does not have a choke--could be nice for autostarting/remote start if you go down that road).

Another question--Do you need 120 or 120/240 VAC output? And do you have mixed / heavy 120 VAC loads (many 120/240 VAC gensets cannot supply a single 120 VAC load at full rated power--perhaps 1/2 or so of rated output).

A second larger genset for shop loads and emergency backup may still make sense too.

-Bill

Dave Angelini · July 2015

The OP probably needs 240V for split phase. There is not anything made better, that will last longer, run quieter for Offgrid. I have about 5 people using them and the older 6500i. I would however add more solar and figure out how to control your usage. Where you live there really is not a need for a generator if make a plan not to. I have about 30 folks in similar locations not running a generator, ever! Good Luck!

hermit · July 2015

One of my back up Jennys is a 8KW light plant. 3cyl diesel, 1800 RPM. You can use it for lights, 120/240V, pull it around, use it for autostart and will run for many thousands of hours. Its an Amida by Terex. Bought it used for $1250.

Shawn-H · July 2015

BB. wrote: »

How much power do you need from your genset? I tend to suggest smaller generators unless you really need those power levels (battery charging can be one of those high power level requirements). If I understand your battery bank (48 volts @ 375 AH)-- A 2-4kWatt genset would be more than large enough for battery charging:
375 AH * 59 volts charging * 0.10 rate of charge = .2,212.5 Watts at 10% rate of charge (excluding losses, genset derating, power factor, etc.).

And depending on your needs--Perhaps a smaller genset (like the Honda em4000sx--The sx version has a engine computer and does not have a choke--could be nice for autostarting/remote start if you go down that road).

Another question--Do you need 120 or 120/240 VAC output? And do you have mixed / heavy 120 VAC loads (many 120/240 VAC gensets cannot supply a single 120 VAC load at full rated power--perhaps 1/2 or so of rated output).

A second larger genset for shop loads and emergency backup may still make sense too.

-Bill

Thank you bb. I'm ok going smaller but I need something reliable it isn't going to break down in a few months I have a yard full of broken generators. and I don't need to 7000 Peak but the 5500 would be nice it would allow me to charge max current (a *C20) and still run a few loads while that happens. and I do need 220v because I'm using my inverters as chargers as well as a 240 volt booster pump.

Shawn-H · July 2015

another question should I go with a larger diesel 10K generator and just get on with it?

Dave Angelini · July 2015

Shawn-H wrote: »

Thank you bb. I'm ok going smaller but I need something reliable it isn't going to break down in a few months I have a yard full of broken generators. and I don't need to 7000 Peak but the 5500 would be nice it would allow me to charge max current (a *C20) and still run a few loads while that happens. and I do need sex honey because I'm using my inverters as chargers as well as a 240 volt booster pump.

Who are you calling Honey?

Shawn-H · July 2015

Dave Angelini wrote: »

Who are you calling Honey?

Lol I hate my phone and I'm starting to think it hates me thank you for pointing it out lol.

manzanita · August 2015

I bought one of the Champion 7000w gasoline/propane generators. It seemed to do the job fairly well.
But after about 400 hours it starts okay but shuts down within 30 seconds. I thought at first it was junk in the gasoline, but switching to propane produced the same behavior.
I haven't resolved the issue yet, so I can't say what the problem is.

At CostCo, the selling price has dropped from about $800 to $650, which makes me wonder if they are having problems with the line. (But that's just speculation on my part.)

Roger Thoms · August 2015

manzanita wrote: »

I bought one of the Champion 7000w gasoline/propane generators. It seemed to do the job fairly well.
But after about 400 hours it starts okay but shuts down within 30 seconds.

Had a similar problem with an Onan generator and it turned out that it needed a valve adjustment.

Roger

westbranch · August 2015

do a search for ChrisOlson and Champion here, Chris wrote at length in one or more of his posts about the good and bad (poor?) things in the Champions, ...he liked them.

hth

manzanita · September 2015

Roger Thoms said:

manzanita wrote: »

I bought one of the Champion 7000w gasoline/propane generators. It seemed to do the job fairly well.
But after about 400 hours it starts okay but shuts down within 30 seconds.

Had a similar problem with an Onan generator and it turned out that it needed a valve adjustment.

Roger

Thanks for the info. That issue might come up later.

The owner's manual only listed two reasons for shutting down while running: either a fuel problem or an oil problem. Since fuel wasn't a problem, I investigated the oil issue.
It appears to have been the oil sensor. I followed the wire into the instrument cluster. It and several other wires shared a connector. After disconnecting the connector, the engine ran quite well.
Unfortunately, disconnecting the connector while the generator was running also burns up the digital display. Oops!

I'll have to see if I can order parts from one of their service centers, the closest being about 150 miles away.

solorone · September 2015

I will throw my 2¢ in. I have been through my share of generators in 32 years, large and small. Noise is not a problem for where I live, and I have a remote location for the gen farm.

Putting all or part of the $4500 into panels is a good idea. We have built an array that meets our base house loads on a cloudy/overcast day, about 20 to 25 A.

I am off grid, multiple/need gensets is a good idea, backup for us off the grid is a no brainer, we are one electronic failure away from chaos, this was why I hated to give up my inefficient 12 V system. Buy a set of circuit breakers and valve cover gaskets first thing, I have found that pushing heavy loads, the unexpected circuit break tends to weaken the breaker itself to a lower Amp failure point. Be sure and adjust the valves as needed.

If I can get a genset to last, at $100 a year, or even 150$ a year, then I would be satisfied, chunk it and start over. Hate to write that when trying to be greenish and I recycle, but lets face it, that is the world we have come to live in, a repair can easily be 20% or more of the cost on machine. I will not buy hi end ever again.

There is no beating a good genset, Honda was a good unit, but that was back in my low power need days. Now if charge we might run the washer , well and microwave, and wife might might use the iron.

The best one for the $ I had was was a Generac XL, with spin on filter and pressured oil. I still see them in really nice shape, and the next 5000 or larger I see I am going to get it. The best feature in it, before my 220 V inverter, was all the power could be accessed from the 110 outlet, pretty sure that is correct for the 4000 XL anyway. never failed to crank till it died. The noise level was not to bad with it, do not remember the rating

Kubota makes an awesome machine, a chore to move if needed, buying parts requires a Kevlar vest and a will to rob a parts house, they are not cheap, plus they sold off the genset division and the parts went up even more, 2 drive belts are $140+. the belt is proprietary, but I did do a work around, and had to replace the best belts I could get every 3/5 months. My genset usage was hi as you will see below. My old system was dying and personal situation forced me to stretch the life of my system, thus a I have a lot of time on it, no meter for a $4500 machine. It sits waiting for a frequency controller.

Diesel was expensive, safe to store, but I do not think I would spend that much on a genset again, and surely would NOT buy another Kubota.

In todays market, you might find a gently used Generac GP 5500 at maybe 450/500$, listed as Best Buy by Consumer Reports, a year or 2 back. I have one with 1400 hours on it and it always cranks on the first pull.

I have the Champion 7000/6300 gas LP genset, $699, had planned to buy another LP tank for it but round toits and $ are in short supply. Electronics checked out spot on with my fluke and Xantrex and it stood up well to a full load test. It is of course louder than the GP 5500 and I think it might be on the thirsty side when compared to another 7000, but maybe not by much. I only have about 90 hours on it in 10 months, I replaced my old arrays and life is good.

I am pleased with Champion. It is one the few I looked at in that price range that had a built in battery charger, it does require a manual switch on it and to be sure you turn it off, think it has a longer than usual warranty. Some other gensets have a funky 12 V plug/charge setup that then requires you put in a charge controller, this seemed a very cheap move on Generac's part.

softdown · September 2015

Maybe a 3000 watt Honda?

jcheil · September 2015

I have been thru a lot of generators also and he is what my 2 cents are.
Unless you get an inverter generator, you are always going to have issues with sags in power output, wacky frequency, etc.

I bought the new Honda EU7000is last fall and loved it, until the summer came this year.

It runs great and is somewhat quiet. I rarely run it in eco-mode because I use it for bulk charging on bad days, but it is just about as good on fuel as any other 5500/7000 generator. The voltage and waveform is perfect. Never misses a beat. And the fuel injection makes it worry free with this ethanol gas we are stuck with now-a-days.

The problem I found is that when it is hot out...and I mean HOT, like this past summer in central Florida, when it was over 100 degrees almost EVERY day, it would overheat the electronics and cause the idle/throttle control to go crazy surging. I spoke to a couple local Honda dealers, they have no idea. I did some testing and removed the rear sound cover that covers the muffler and where the forced air exits thru a small 6" X 14" grate. I had a feeling it was restricting the cooling air from exiting. I think it is a design flaw. they spent too much time trying to make it quiet at the sacrifice of inadequate cooling in extreme temperatures. With this panel removed, now the air could exit thru the entire back of the unit instead of that little vent. This helped a bit, it would run a bit longer than it normally would with the cover on.

Next I added a couple of big box fans directing cool air from under my shed into the cooling intake side of the unit. That helped a bit more, but it still will overheat the electronics within an hour of the ambient temp being over 101-102.

When the outside temp is under 100, I don't see the issue happening. So depending on where you live, this might be something to think about. Unless Honda decides to look into this more. I plan on calling the main office this week, but as luck would have it, it's starting to cool off now that it is getting to the fall. So might have to wait to reproduce the issue next summer.

softdown · September 2015

Manufacturers often have to build for normal conditions unless pricing is no object. A Honda design flaw? Yes. Perhaps they have grown aware and have a solution? Perhaps somebody here knows how to keep a Florida storage unit cooler than ambient temps.

solorone · October 2015

Dave Angelini said:

The OP probably needs 240V for split phase. There is not anything made better, that will last longer, run quieter for Offgrid. I have about 5 people using them and the older 6500i. I would however add more solar and figure out how to control your usage. Where you live there really is not a need for a generator if make a plan not to. I have about 30 folks in similar locations not running a generator, ever! Good Luck!

In my earlier post I did not address not needing a generator. I guess if one really tried you could do that, but why deny yourself a normal life. In 1989/91, we went 22 days in Georgia with nothing but clouds, Today we are into our 13th day of no sun, NADA. Fortunately we are only generating about every other day, and getting 17 to 38 amps input, from the cloud cover.

It is cold, and we can not run the electric heaters.

An edit to my posy about Generac XL gensets. They are built with a Large surge capacity, about 50%. If I see another 6500 I am going to buy it, real clean power also.

softdown · October 2015

How did this happen? Thought I said 2000 watt Honda. That is what I was thinking. Pros and cons to large vs small of course.

softdown said:

Maybe a 3000 watt Honda?

Shawn-H · October 2015

I'm going to go with 1 2000w honda is and 2 3000w honda is

softdown · October 2015

Big gensets use a lot more fuel. Just covering the bases here.

solorone · October 2015

softdown said:

Big gensets use a lot more fuel. Just covering the bases here.

Also allow you to run washer and dryer and other heavy loads while charging, and kick that deep well pump starter over, do your irrigation while charging, good to have large and small units. I have never had anything smaller than a 4000 myself. Cheers.

Dave Angelini · October 2015

solorone said:

Dave Angelini said:

The OP probably needs 240V for split phase. There is not anything made better, that will last longer, run quieter for Offgrid. I have about 5 people using them and the older 6500i. I would however add more solar and figure out how to control your usage. Where you live there really is not a need for a generator if make a plan not to. I have about 30 folks in similar locations not running a generator, ever! Good Luck!

In my earlier post I did not address not needing a generator. I guess if one really tried you could do that, but why deny yourself a normal life. In 1989/91, we went 22 days in Georgia with nothing but clouds, Today we are into our 13th day of no sun, NADA. Fortunately we are only generating about every other day, and getting 17 to 38 amps input, from the cloud cover.
It is cold, and we can not run the electric heaters.
An edit to my posy about Generac XL gensets. They are built with a Large surge capacity, about 50%. If I see another 6500 I am going to buy it, real clean power also.

I was referring to the OP 's location the south west US. The south east would be very very hard to do without a generator because of the humidity and weather. The south west rarely has more than 2 or three days of non-usable solar.

2twisty · March 2016

My input:

I use a Harbor Freight 7000/8500 electric start generator. Available on sale for $600.

I invested in a GSCM-Mini and regged up a propane-based choke mechanism to help it start remotely. Those items can be reused.

I can buy a LOT of cheap gensets for $4500.

I sized my genset to be right in the middle of its power band (~3500W) when I'm bulking my batteries and running my usual loads. I have lots of remaining capacity, and the 50% load range is the "sweet spot" for this generator in terms of fuel efficiency per watt generated.

I pulled this off because I'm a tinkerer and have no qualms about hacking the wiring of a $600 genset. Others prefer buying an already integrated solution for a lot more money.

wellbuilt · April 2016

I have to say I like the Hondas and would love to buy one , but they are a lot of money .
I'm off grid now in a trailer and building a house on site and use 2 champion generators one to charge 2 6v battery's 1800 watts the other is a 4500 watt to run tools .
I think the cost was 189 and 329 + tax at tractor supply .
The generators don't put out rated power but the 1880 watt will put out abou 1200wats .
The larger generator can run a saw and compresser but that's about it .
I have about 300 hrs on the 4500 watt , I just change the oil every week or so 60 hr+- with mobile 1 .
i mite have to check the valves but haven't yet .
I know a guy that runs a battery charger about 400 hrs a year and he is on his 3rd year with the champion.
He has replaced the spark plug filters and pull cord .
I think for 100 dollars a year you are better off buying new every 3 years.

oil pan 4 · April 2016

The harder you run them the more efficient they are.
My generator for example can run 10% load and still use about a half gallon of fuel per hour. At half load it's 3/4 gallon per hour. Near full load it's using a little over 1 gallon per hour.
Doing that I get 100% more power at full load but I only burn 30% to 50% more fuel compared to running half load.

HELP! Need a good generator

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