2015 electric fence option thread

softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
It has been a few years since solar electric fences were discussed. Some of the previously recommended products are either unavailable or no longer listed under the posted link. It is also possible that some people are getting more concerned about security issues.

This is what I currently have to work with: 80 watts of 12 volt solar power and 110 Ah of 12 volt battery power. Extra 400 watt inverter if it makes sense to operate at 110/120 volts. Super loud 12 volt alarm (hoping it can be triggered if the electric fence get cut). Can use more batteries if needed.

Goal: Keep coyotes out and deter most bad guys.

I have a five acre 4' game fence with a strand of barbed wire several inches above the game fence. Also two 5/8" strands of cable to keep most 18 wheelers out. I used long fence posts so it would be easy to attach an electric fence line to the top of each post. I want a non-lethal zap but a powerful one.

Coyotes are very interested in my alpacas. I think the frozen ground is the only thing that is preventing them from digging under the game fence.

So: One strand at 6' on top of the fence to deter many bad guys. Alarm to sound if the fence gets cut (or shorted?). One strand on the outside at 1' to keep the coyotes away.

Security is everything to me. I am spending the winter basically camping, without running water, TV, or comfortable temperatures due to security concerns. This as well as dogs, good locks, security cameras, signs, and a fence.
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries

Comments

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    Very funny story that I found on the intrawebs (just for grins):
    "We have the standard 6 ft. fence in the backyard, and a few months ago, I heard about burglaries increasing dramatically in the entire city. To make sure this never happened to me I got an electric fence and ran a single wire along the top of the fence.
    Actually, I got the biggest cattle charger Tractor Supply had, made for 26 miles of fence. I then used an 8 ft. long ground rod, and drove it 7.5 feet into the ground. The ground rod is the key, with the more you have in the ground, the better the fence works.
    One day I'm mowing the back yard with my cheapo Wal-Mart 6 hp big wheel push mower. The hot wire is broken and laying out in the yard. I knew for a fact that I unplugged the charger. I pushed the mower around the wire and reached down to grab it, to throw it out of the
    way. HOLY @&;#!!! It seems as though I hadn't remembered to unplug it after all.
    Now I'm standing there, I've got the running lawnmower in my right hand and the 1.7 giga-volt fence wire in the other hand. Keep in mind the charger is about the size of a marine battery and has a picture of an upside down cow on fire on the cover.
    Time stood still.
    The first thing I notice is my pecker trying to climb up the front side of my body. My ears curled downwards and I could feel the lawnmower ignition firing in the backside of my brain. Every time that Briggs & Stratton rolled over, I could feel the spark in my head. I was literally at one with the engine.
    It seems as though the fence charger and the piece of shit lawnmower were fighting over who would control my electrical impulses.
    Science says you cannot crap, pee, and vomit at the same time. I beg to differ. Not only did I do all three at once, but my bowels emptied 3 different times in less than half of a second. It was a Matrix kind of bowel movement, where time is creeping along and you're all leaned back and BAM, BAM, BAM you just crap your pants 3 times. It seemed like there were minutes in between but in reality it was so close together it was like exhaust pulses from a big block Chevy turning 8,000 RPM’s.
    At this point I'm about 30 minutes (maybe 2 seconds) into holding onto the fence wire. My hand is wrapped around the wire palm down so I can't let go. I grew up on a farm so I know all about electric fences.....but Dad always had those piece of shit chargers made by International or whoever that were like 9 volts and just kinda
    tickled. This one I could not let go of. The 8 foot long ground rod is now accepting signals from me through the permadamp Ark-La-Tex river bottom soil. At this point I'm thinking I'm going to have to just man up and take it, until the lawnmower runs out of gas.
    'Damn!' I think, as I remember I just filled the tank!
    Now the lawnmower is starting to run rough. It has settled into a loping run pattern as if it had some kind of big lawnmower race cam in it. Covered in poop, pee, and with my vomit on my chest, I think 'Oh God please die... Pleeeeaze die'. But nooooo, it settles into the rough lumpy cam idle nicely and remains there, like a big bore roller cam EFI motor waiting for the go command from its owner's right foot.
    So here I am in the middle of July, 104 degrees, 80% humidity, standing in my own backyard, begging God to kill me. God did not take me that day.....he left me there covered in my own fluids to writhe in the misery my own stupidity had created.
    I honestly don't know how I got loose from the wire... I woke up laying on the ground hours later. The lawnmower was beside me, out of gas. It was later on in the day and I was horribly sunburned.
    There were two large dead grass spots where I had been standing, and then another long skinny dead spot where the wire had laid while I was on the ground still holding on to it. I assume I finally had a seizure and in the resulting thrashing had somehow let go of the wire.
    Upon waking from my electrically induced sleep I realized a few things:
    1- Three of my teeth seem to have melted.
    2- I now have cramps in the bottoms of my feet and my right butt cheek (not the left, just the right).
    3- Poop, pee, and vomit when all mixed together, do not smell as bad as you might think.
    4- My left eye will not open.
    5- My right eye will not close.
    6- The lawnmower runs like a sumbitch now. Seriously!! I think our little session cleared out some carbon fouling or something, because it was better than new after that.
    7- My nuts are still smaller than average yet they are almost a foot long now.
    8- I can turn on the TV in the game room by farting while thinking of the number 4 (still don't understand this???).
    That day changed my life. I now have a newfound respect for things. I appreciate the little things more, and now I always triple check to make sure the fence is unplugged before I mow.
    The good news is that if a burglar does try to come over the fence, I can clearly visualize what my security system will do to him, and THAT gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling all over, which also reminds me to triple check before I mow!"

    *Reportedly this is a true story composed by a retired dentist.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    WooHoo....it is possible to use good quality barbed wire as electric fence material. Turns out I already have a couple rolls. I am extremely remote so kids aren't going to get shocked. No need to contact the Department of Safetyness. ;)
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    Barbed wire is all we ever had when I was a kid. Worked well with an International weed chopper. Our fencer used 120 ac for a power source. I was mean and asked one of my cousins to pee on it. And he did.
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    That was more than a little mean! My grandfather ran high voltage through his line. I decided it was safe because a dragonfly was sitting on it..... It was worse than all but one of the 120 volt shocks that I've felt.
    solarvic wrote: »
    Barbed wire is all we ever had when I was a kid. Worked well with an International weed chopper. Our fencer used 120 ac for a power source. I was mean and asked one of my cousins to pee on it. And he did.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    So far....this appears to be one of the more viable options: http://intelligentfencing.com/shop/viewitem.php?productid=1

    The reviews at Amazon are generally good. Bonus: Made in America :D
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • CDN_VTCDN_VT Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    Attachment not found.


    I run one of these (60$) with a solar panel thats hidden , But I do use the Bright yellow tape & string with signs saying it's hot .. I have heard a few screams from idiots & then the dogs go out to see where the noise came from .. Coons know how to get around it , but haven't mastered catching projectiles .We once lost many birds in one night , took a year to rebound .
  • BlitzBlitz Solar Expert Posts: 33
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread.

    Softdown's Story about the Dentist and the electric fence... awesome.

    I have horses here, so its not really an option... " where 'they' are "

    but I'm seriously digging this thread.

    I have the wire and the controller, and the "gate handle" insulated , spring loaded disconnect...

    just really need to think this one out... as to where it would serve the best use.

    I dont want to zap the Horses...
    But this thread tells me its time to put more thought and effort into this .

    Carry on.

    Still laughing about the dentist.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    Horses are quite smart, ours would NEVER try to cross a wire, charged or not ... she 'tasted' that sting once and that was all it took, the colt was a different matter... and height did not seem to matter either,after.... but we used about 3 feet for height most of the time
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    Looks like the parts are lined up. Does somebody know a simple way to get a 12 volt "cabin alarm" to go off if the electric fence gets cut?

    I believe that a 1000 pound hairy animal will feel a fraction of the sting that humans do....
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    4 feet to ground out vs 2 feet with shoes on...??? best guess... I know a sniff of the wire by my dog as a pup sent him 3 doors away and he was petrified to go near that wire again!!! same with the bear cub that wanted into my bee yard, I heard the grunt of pain from inside the house...

    I think a relay that is always 'ON' when the fence is working would work for you , fence cut, power goes off, triggers the alarm...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    I'm sure that makes perfect sense to electrical folks. Me....not being one of those. The charge controller sends out pulses - think that may complicate it?
    westbranch wrote: »

    I think a relay that is always 'ON' when the fence is working would work for you , fence cut, power goes off, triggers the alarm...
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    Does someone know of good line to fence connectors for barbed wire? I am wondering if I may need ceramic for the corner posts.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BlitzBlitz Solar Expert Posts: 33
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    Ifr anyone figures out how to activate a 12 volt alarm horn when the fence is cut, I sure would like to know also.

    I had thought about the relay that is N/C, and it would set off the horn when "open", but you are correct about the pulses of power...
    And that would "maybe" fry the relay... and have the "cycle " effect in time with the pulses.

    I am not the best engineer, electronically.... But would a capacitor work ?

    The capacitor would be charged with the pulses ( properly sized ) and when the fenced is cut, the capacitor would discharge and could then be used to set off the horn ??
    Of course there would be a delay, in the time it takes for the cap to discharge...

    just thinking out loud, trying to stir some answers...

    One of the NASA Guys will chime in ... I hope.

    There IS a way to do it, but it requires engineering a circuit.

    If there was only a forum somewhere where we could ask... : )
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,697 admin
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    I would have to think about it more--But using a capacitor divider--A small high voltage (fence voltage ~15,000 volts?) connected to the "far end" of the fence wire and a second ~1,000 times larger capacitor to ground. That would give you ~15 volt pulse at the midpoint of the capacitor.

    Connect to the mid point of the capacitors with a diode to the input of a 555 timer chip. And probably a pair of clamp diodes to positive rail and ground (to keep midpoint voltage between zero and + rail voltage). Set up the 555 timer chip as a resetable one shot that if it does not get pulses for more than X seconds, it trips your alarm.

    This will detect a broken or shorted fence wire. It will not detect somebody jumping the fence wire and cutting out a section of fence.

    Not sure how reliable this would be... Depending on the capacitor ratio--An animal or grass against the wire will short out the wire.

    And if you have lightning in the area--I would be looking at isolating the detection circuit so you don't get a jolt into the home (opto isolators, even a 2 foot minimum jumper of fiber-optic cable to the alarm relay block, etc.

    Or buy something like this:

    http://security.speedrite.com/control_1_new.asp

    Not sure how much it costs...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BlitzBlitz Solar Expert Posts: 33
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    Very Very nice find BB.

    I cant find them for sale, in America... but they are 2700 Euros here:
    http://www.gjeteren.no/butikk/speedrite-am1-alarm-monitor.html#.VMkaQNLF-CM
    I have a feeling they are discontinued, as they are not on the manufacturers website.

    Made in New Zealand...

    worthy company it seems, and they have a lot of 12 volt and solar products ( fence products )

    Here is an illustration from their website, showing a checklist for a complete fence system.
    You can get to their home page from here as well.

    Nice find .
    So they exist....

    Just have to find one not so much $$$

    http://www.speedrite.com/checklist/permanent-fencing-checklist
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    There is one item readily available in the USA: http://intelligentfencing.com/shop/viewitem.php?productid=140

    Gallagher of Australia still seems to maintain some control in fence charging. Patents?

    The Speedrite item that BB dug up has no readily available USA contacts that I could find. Numerous other contacts around the world though.

    There is NADA on Ebay or Amazon or even light hearted Google searches.

    So we are looking at approx $500 for an alarm. The Fence Hawk doesn't even charge....it simply enables the alarm.

    Something fishy going on. I suspect Gallagher patents and control so far.

    $500 is just nuts for maybe a "$50" piece. Electronics......
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    Here is a Gallagher fence alarm for $369. Like I was saying.....

    http://www.fencechargers.net/products/gallagher-fence-voltage-alarm
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    Interesting $100 product for 330 foot perimiters. Probably not made for years of continuous usage though.

    http://www.bestbearfence.com/products/campers/perimeter-alarms.htm
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    This product is about $25 and widely available. If a lightbulb can be triggered then an alarm can be triggered - by a knowledgeable person.

    The key to simplicity is: the alarm goes off when there is no power going through the lines. Should be easy enough - for an electrical wizard.



    http://www.amazon.com/Patriot-Fence-Alert/dp/B00HHIG3OU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422470273&sr=8-1&keywords=fence+alert
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    Looks like a nice unit for $675. 6 joules for 160 mile range.

    What about the little guy on a budget?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/LACME-CLOS-2007-6Joule-Display-Alarm-and-Reponse-Electric-Fence-/310118388360?_trksid=p2054897.l4275
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BlitzBlitz Solar Expert Posts: 33
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    How about if Your fence send you a text message if it is cut?

    And You can turn it on and off by text

    http://farmhack.net/tools/rover-remote-electric-fence-switch-text-message

    Actually, this only monitors the power supply TO the fence controller.
    If the fence gets cut.... the controller still has power.

    You can turn it on and off by text... and be alerted of power failures.



    The Perimeter alarm for Bears that you found is a stand alone, very thin wire alarm.

    Good for its intended use, and I like it.


    The Fence alert with the light, is made by the same company "Speedrite" that BB found.
    I'm pretty sure its a small LED in there, and it uses button batteries...
    But could probably run a relay.
    http://www.speedrite.com/en-us/product/fence-alert

    That seems like the cheapest bet... If you can get one apart ( sonicaly welded )


    The good news is...

    We went from a 4000 dollar AM1 fence alarm, to a 675 dollar complete unit... in about an hour.
    the fence alert with the LED light is only 25 bucks...

    I would call that progress, and Kudos for the hunt.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,697 admin
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    In the engineering lab, we used loggers with photo sensors on a wire. Tape them to the LEDs and the logger "sees"/logs the LED state.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 2015 electric fence option thread

    I spent more time and it doesn't look promising for further breakthroughs. That is really more than I wanted to spend. :cry: Awfully broke after paying property tax. Uninsured driver clobbered my car...

    Edit: In addition, the Lacme unit is sold "asis". Service would need to be done in France and may not be available at all. The factory apparently pulled out. Patent issues?

    Blitz wrote: »
    How about if Your fence send you a text message if it is cut?

    And You can turn it on and off by text

    http://farmhack.net/tools/rover-remote-electric-fence-switch-text-message

    Actually, this only monitors the power supply TO the fence controller.
    If the fence gets cut.... the controller still has power.

    You can turn it on and off by text... and be alerted of power failures.



    The Perimeter alarm for Bears that you found is a stand alone, very thin wire alarm.

    Good for its intended use, and I like it.


    The Fence alert with the light, is made by the same company "Speedrite" that BB found.
    I'm pretty sure its a small LED in there, and it uses button batteries...
    But could probably run a relay.
    http://www.speedrite.com/en-us/product/fence-alert

    That seems like the cheapest bet... If you can get one apart ( sonicaly welded )


    The good news is...

    We went from a 4000 dollar AM1 fence alarm, to a 675 dollar complete unit... in about an hour.
    the fence alert with the LED light is only 25 bucks...

    I would call that progress, and Kudos for the hunt.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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