need opinions on purchasing batteries

Shawn-HShawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
I'm trying to figure out what the best battery for my dollar is going to be. I'm really thinkingabout 1200 amp/hr 24V forklift batteries. I'm running a 24 volt system with 2 Outback VFX 3524's, 6 flexMax 80's & 21 Astronergy CHSM 6612P 310 Watts Solar Panels. and a 2200 watt inverter generator for backup power and battery charging.
100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
Vag woodstove for heat.
Follow our journey at
https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey

Comments

  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: need opinions on purchasing batteries

    Twenty-one 310 Watt panels? That is a lot of panel! 6510 Watts, about 208 Amps peak output. Definitely could charge up 2100 Amp hours of battery.

    Question: why six FM80's? 208 Amps could be handle on three. I hope it has something to do with the way the arrays are configured.

    If you've read about forklift batteries on here you know they have certain disadvantages as well as advantages (everything does). Understanding what they are and how to cope with them would be key.

    That 2200 Watt generator isn't going to do you much good against that size battery though. Maybe 90 Amps with no loads. That would be 7.5% rate, which is pretty low on a big battery like that.
  • Shawn-HShawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: need opinions on purchasing batteries
    Twenty-one 310 Watt panels? That is a lot of panel! 6510 Watts, about 208 Amps peak output. Definitely could charge up 2100 Amp hours of battery.

    Question: why six FM80's? 208 Amps could be handle on three. I hope it has something to do with the way the arrays are configured.

    If you've read about forklift batteries on here you know they have certain disadvantages as well as advantages (everything does). Understanding what they are and how to cope with them would be key.

    That 2200 Watt generator isn't going to do you much good against that size battery though. Maybe 90 Amps with no loads. That would be 7.5% rate, which is pretty low on a big battery like that.

    I get 181 amps max. Not 208.
    I have 6 charge controllers due to the way the array is set up. I have thought about going to less but I like the way I receive the power now and I got a really good deal when I bought six all at once.

    to be completely honest I don't know what the drawbacks are for forklift batteries. I honestly haven't heard much about them at all. all I know is that I have a friend who can get me a really good deal. but I don't want to end up with something that will not work for my family. I did that in the beginning of this and I've spent way more money than I had to. thanks to you and the rest of the people on this forum I've been able to completely set up my own system. and I have less than ten thousand dollars into it so far.
    sorry I forgot to mention I have a cheap 10000 watt predator generatorthat I'm hoping will last me a year until I can get 2 or 3 Honda 3000 watt inverter generators.
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need opinions on purchasing batteries
    Shawn-H wrote: »
    I get 181 amps max. Not 208.
    Well at least you don't have inflated expectations of your array! I would figure it as 6510 watt potential at 24 volts, so divide 6510/24=@271 amps, since panels don't produce this except on perfect days, multiply x >.75 for 77% efficiency and 2% CC loss or about 203 amps but we're all in the right ball park!
    Shawn-H wrote: »
    I have 6 charge controllers due to the way the array is set up. I have thought about going to less but I like the way I receive the power now and I got a really good deal when I bought six all at once.

    to be completely honest I don't know what the drawbacks are for forklift batteries. I honestly haven't heard much about them at all. all I know is that I have a friend who can get me a really good deal. but I don't want to end up with something that will not work for my family. I did that in the beginning of this and I've spent way more money than I had to. thanks to you and the rest of the people on this forum I've been able to completely set up my own system. and I have less than ten thousand dollars into it so far.
    sorry I forgot to mention I have a cheap 10000 watt predator generatorthat I'm hoping will last me a year until I can get 2 or 3 Honda 3000 watt inverter generators.

    I like forklift batteries so far, but they have a higher self discharge rate and require watering a bit more often, also equalizing every month. They do tend to last a longer if what people say is true, ask me in 11 years and I'll tell you more...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • Shawn-HShawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: need opinions on purchasing batteries

    if I do do forklift batteries I'm going to do an auto water set up.

    my largest concern is whether or notthey are going to last longer then solar specific batteries? and if they're worth the extra money?

    does anybody have any idea of a better battery I'm really open to advise here.
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need opinions on purchasing batteries

    Dollar for dollar, I'd guess they are the cheapest for the life time of the battery depending on your cost.

    Best is relative and all batteries are storage units, I haven't seen any that are solar specific in that they can be charge by being left out in the sun...lol. It just becoming popular for people to make and call batteries 'solar' batteries. We call some types of batteries Golf Cart, Floor Scrubber, or Forklift as that is the reason they are mass produced. Their are HUP 1 which is a forklift sized battery and similar in many ways, also Simpler Solar Systems had batteries made to design and sell a Solar specific battery. Alas non of them charge by leaving them out in the sun...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • Shawn-HShawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: need opinions on purchasing batteries

    Thank you. Knowing what my panels are doing what do you think I should do as for sizing my amp/hr. I use just under 440 a day in the winter.
    I can afford about $3500 to $4500 for batteries. I have a friend that can get me 550 amp/hr 24 volt forklift batteries for about $1200-$1600 each delivered. do you find this to be a reasonable cost to amp/hr? If not then any ideas on a place to get them?
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need opinions on purchasing batteries

    Questions,

    440 what? Amp hours? at 24v? 10+ kwhs?

    are these new batteries?

    Is the amp hour rate for 6 hours or 20 hours? Forklifts are typically rated for 6 hours.

    I paid $2525 for my 510 ah (6 hour rated) 804 ah (20 hour rated) battery new, a reconditioned battery would run about 1/2 that (delivered)
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • Shawn-HShawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: need opinions on purchasing batteries

    I just assumed that it was at a 20 hour rate I didn't really ask.
    O $h!t SORRY MY BAD LOL 4,400 watt/hrs a night lol
    yes I specified that they must be new although I'm pretty sure recondition battery will look brand new I know the guy pretty well but he was going to buy it and then bring it. he works for a tractor company in Phoenix Arizona. said he could get one from work for much cheaper than I could get one elsewhere.

    can I ask where you got yours? because now I'm a little bit worried.
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: need opinions on purchasing batteries

    GB Battery, These prices include delivery to a loading dock, extra $75 for a lift gate truck. These are heavy, and even a lift gate truck is just going to drop it, you will need a good piece of equipment to move most of them around, or a stubborn fool, like me, to place them. You also might go to the site and search from your local, These prices are for zone 15.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • Shawn-HShawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: need opinions on purchasing batteries

    Thank you. Photowhit & Cariboocoot again.
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
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