Finally permit plans submitted!

HX_Guy
HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
Hey guys, if you remember, I've been working on figuring out a system for our house and finally after literally a few months we have plans submitted to both the city and electric company. Decided on SolarEdge optimizers (P350) with the SE11400US inverter and (39) Canadian Solar 310W panels. There are a couple errors in the plans, one being that I specified for the inverter to be mounted outside, not in the garage and the other that they specified only 2 strings in the plans but we need 3 since the max wattage per string is 5250w with SolarEdge and we have a 12,090W system. My installer said the inverter can be changed at the time of install, it doesn't have to be exact on the plans and on the stringing, he said he talked to the city and they said it's fine to leave it as is on the plans and change it on install. Hope that's correct.

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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    Okay, I'll bite: why are there two disconnects for one inverter, as well as a 60 Amp breaker?
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    Local city requires a disconnect in the garage and one outside by the service meter for some reason. Will probably not end up with two since the inverter will be outside.

    Not sure what you mean about the 60A breaker...what is the problem there?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    Electrically the only disconnect it needs is that 60 Amp back-feed breaker. The other two are redundant. Even having one outside is redundant, because if they pull the meter the GTI shuts down.

    Another fine job of bureaucracy making things needlessly complicated and expensive.
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    Heh, yeah. And get this, the inverter itself has a built in disconnect as well...but the city doesn't like that, they need a standalone separate disconnect next to the inverter, and again next to the service meter. So what is that, a total of 4 disconnects? Crazy.

    Added a few more plans in original post BTW.
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  • KozmoK
    KozmoK Solar Expert Posts: 42 ✭
    #6
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    Yes I can say I have the same system as HX_Guy is installing (but smaller) about 1 mile away - They made me put a disconnect outside and inside, they stated that if your working on it in the garage, and someone turns it on outside and you didn't know you could get hurt. Drove the cost up another $150. The SolarEdge has a AC/DC disconnect switch below the inverter, its really not physically apart of the inverter electronics, but has molded plastic connected to it, they wouldn't allow that to be the sole inside disconnect.
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  • Plowman
    Plowman Solar Expert Posts: 203 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    Interesting plans, HX_Guy, afraid I'm too ignorant to comment intelligently on them. Any idea if the guy who did the diagram is an electrician or an electrical engineer?

    Anyone know what software is used to make diagrams like this?
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  • solarix
    solarix Solar Expert Posts: 713 ✭✭
    #8
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    Nice plans, they look like they are all geared up to deal with AHJ red tape. Two disconnects - the utility needs one outside to be OSHA "lockout/tagout" and the code needs one inside as the inverter is not "within sight" of the outside one. Of course they don't trust the manufacture's disconnecting means even though they supply it separate from the inverter in order to satisfy these rules! Oh, that evil solar power! It needs 5 ways to make sure it can be turned off.... And this is a SolarEdge system that shuts the panels off in emergencies - they should love that. Wait till this becomes a requirement by the 2014 code.
    Ok my question: Why are the modules oriented in landscape on the south facing side? That takes twice as much mounting rail and twice as many mountings and twice as many holes in your roof and twice as much work as portrait orientation? Might be able to squeeze a few more in I guess, but it is going to "not look so good". These architectural roofs that are all chopped up into little bits for asthetic reasons end up looking bad when solar gets applied. Just wait till the 2014 code comes to your building dept and you have to have a 3' border around the array.
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  • KenZ71
    KenZ71 Solar Expert Posts: 58 ✭✭
    #9
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    My system just officially went live last night, Yippee!

    We have a solaredge inverter with its own automatic shutdown, to the left a manual shutdown switch, to the left of that the meter with two stickers that both say "shut off switch to the LEFT". Both the local building inspector and utility inspector were caught up with making sure we have the switches but did not read the labels.
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    Quick update: The initial permit was denied, not sure why, but it was sent back to the installer. Not surprised though, seems to happen to most solar permits, from the ones I've looked at online, probably 8/10 are denied and sent back initially for one reason or another.
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!
    solarix wrote: »
    Ok my question: Why are the modules oriented in landscape on the south facing side? That takes twice as much mounting rail and twice as many mountings and twice as many holes in your roof and twice as much work as portrait orientation? Might be able to squeeze a few more in I guess, but it is going to "not look so good". These architectural roofs that are all chopped up into little bits for asthetic reasons end up looking bad when solar gets applied. Just wait till the 2014 code comes to your building dept and you have to have a 3' border around the array.

    A few reasons on that...

    1. If we were to put them in portrait, we could only fit one row otherwise we wouldn't meet the fire code setback. We could have lined the whole sound roof in portrait which would have looked very clean, but I have a two story neighbor to the south which creates significant shade on about 1/2 the roof (basically the whole 1/2 bottom part) so I wanted the panels up as high as possible.

    2. Again because of the shade, I wanted those panels in landscape because of the bypass diodes which separate the panel into 3 basically in landscape. Looking at many tests online, if shade comes in from the long edge, the panel still produces fairly well. If shade comes in from the short edge, the panel is reduced to basically nothing.
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!
    HX_Guy wrote: »
    Heh, yeah. And get this, the inverter itself has a built in disconnect as well...but the city doesn't like that, they need a standalone separate disconnect next to the inverter, and again next to the service meter. So what is that, a total of 4 disconnects? Crazy.

    Added a few more plans in original post BTW.
    Sounds like they are under the misconception that a GTI output can independently power its output w/o grid present. And on that basis the only way to de-energize the wires between GTI and panel would be to disconnect them at both ends. ???
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • KozmoK
    KozmoK Solar Expert Posts: 42 ✭
    #13
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    Not to Hijack HX_Guys thread - but what size system did you get? I love solaredge, it seems to be gaining popularity.
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    UPDATE: Our permit was finally approved today, 3 months after initially submitted. It was denied twice and finally approved on the 3rd submittal. We had to had another panel, so now there will be a total of 40 panels (12.40kW system) to do 4 strings of 10 and also needed a separate permit to derate the electrical panel to 175A. Hopefully things start moving at a much faster pace now, we need this up on the roof by the end of the year to claim the tax credit for this year.
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    Solar inverter and optimizer came in so hopefully install starts in the next week or so, though with Thanksgiving next week it'll probably be the week after.

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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    This ended up being the final setup which I designed myself.

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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    The shade model/analysis I did months back to try and figure how much the neighbor's house would shade our south roof actually ended up being very accurate now that I can walk outside and see it for myself so I'm glad I ended up going with the SolarEdge system.

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  • KozmoK
    KozmoK Solar Expert Posts: 42 ✭
    #18
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    You did a great job in planning this out! Now to get it all installed and inspected by 12/31/14
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    Just wondering why you did not use the other roof that does not get shaded , to the top/right of the picture.. that ois parallel to the slope chosen.
     
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  • KozmoK
    KozmoK Solar Expert Posts: 42 ✭
    #20
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    He actually did. If you look at the plans submitted for 40 panels (non-colored 2D pic), he uses that portion of the roof.
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #21
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!
    KozmoK wrote: »
    You did a great job in planning this out! Now to get it all installed and inspected by 12/31/14

    Kozmo: I understand that it just needs to be installed on the roof by 12/31/14 for the tax credits, but not actually up and running. Haven't read anything about it needed to be inspected by the end of the year to be able to claim the tax credit for 2014...did you read that somewhere?
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #22
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!
    westbranch wrote: »
    Just wondering why you did not use the other roof that does not get shaded , to the top/right of the picture.. that ois parallel to the slope chosen.

    Correct, as Kosmo replied, I did use that portion too but I didn't do shade testing there because it wasn't necessary.
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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #23
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

    Install started today, they were out here about 4 hours. Got the meter box, disconnect box and inverter mounted and wires ran (gonna need to paint those tubes...not the most finesse looking install but shortest/easiest route I guess).
    They also got up on the roof and started prepping for the rails by removes roof tiles and pre drilling holes in the rafters.

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  • HX_Guy
    HX_Guy Solar Expert Posts: 296 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #24
    Re: Finally permit plans submitted!

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